Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions • Hacker News Board

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#31

Post by Shivetya » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:01 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

No offense, but many with criminal convictions are bad people. I know it may be nice to think otherwise. However there just are many people out there who are difficult if it not impossible to fully integrate into society.

then you run into not society but government issues as well. just some examples my cousins run into all the time, they have to use temporary agencies to filter people and stock crews each week. Why? Drug convictions can ban them from some sites their company does work at. It can also jack their company's vehicle insurance and health insurance cost. Plus, go figure, those with more than one don't turn out to be good employees. They used to do direct hires, they even tried VA recommended people. some just hang on long enough to start collecting benefits again or meet eligibility requirements. they have good jobs to offer as do thousands of small employers do but they cannot afford the cost of that risk.

but ignoring their hiring issues, occupational licensing which prevents competition in many fields can include clauses that block those convicted of a crime from entering a field and drug convictions doubly so.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#32

Post by caseyscottmckay » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:02 PM UTC

onetimemanytime wrote: post #17

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

Curious: don't these people still have to report the arrests in some forms /for some jobs even if they're vacated? "Have you ever been arrested or jailed..." I know US immigration specifically asks to mention even if pardoned or expunged.

Yes, a criminal record never leaves you even if "expunged" or otherwise deleted from your record.

First, you have to admit to it with many jobs/other things anyway (e.g., fbi, military, bar exam etc). And it's usually worse to lie about the charge.

Second, everything is documented on the internet. Thus, even if you're eventually proven innocent and never had anything to do with the criminal charge, it will still be associated with you throughout life.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#33

Post by caseyscottmckay » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:06 PM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #24

onetimemanytime wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious: don't these people still have to report the arrests in some forms /for some jobs even if they're vacated? "Have you ever been arrested or jailed..." I know US immigration specifically asks to mention even if pardoned or expunged.

Isn't asking just if one has been arrested in an interview for nonlaw enforcement positions technically an illegal question without qualifiers to specifically exclude the ones that didn't result in conviction or admission of guilt? Arrest doesn't imply conviction or even the low bar for indictment. For instance SWAT protocol is to cuff literally everybody else possible on the scene for one and then assess and release…

No that's false. Every single job I've ever applied to has asked about a criminal record.

There is, however, a "ban the box" movement in a plurality of states, banning employers from asking potential employees about a criminal record.

With the internet documenting all public information, however, it's normally trivial for an employer to do a little research and find the employee's record.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#34

Post by faitswulff » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:06 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #31

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

No offense, but many with criminal convictions are bad people. I know it may be nice to think otherwise. However there just are many people out there who are difficult if it not impossible to fully integrate into society. then you run into not society but government issues as well. just some examples my cousins run into all the time, they have to use temporary agencies to filter people and stock crews each week. Why?…

> many with criminal convictions are bad people

What do you do with "bad people?" Are they to be forever a drain on society? I agree that it's a government issue, but we should be rehabilitating our criminals instead of (just) labeling and punishing them: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/wh...

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#35

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:07 PM UTC

phatboyslim wrote: post #28

Symbiote wrote: post #16

For comparison, what happened just after alcohol prohibition ended in the USA? (I'm not American, so not too familiar with this.)

This comparison isn't useful IMO because alcohol had actually been legal prior to prohibition introduced by puritanism. If anything I'd say prohibition gave people pause since alcoholism and heavy drinking was quite common prior to it being introduced. (Note: I'm not against marijuana legalization/decriminalization - just making an observation).

To be fair, marijuana was criminalized at the same time as booze, and by the same people, but yeah, we've now had multi-generational prohibition instead of a decade.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#36

Post by wccrawford » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

craigharley wrote: post #23

XCabbage wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even sure what he's trying to say, but if he means to imply that 2/3 US prison inmates are inside for drug offences, it's nonsense. The real number isn't even 15%. See https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/releasing-drug-offender... .

According to the Bureau of Prisons, there are 207,847 people incarcerated in federal prisons. Roughly half (48.6 percent) are in for drug offenses. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, there are 1,358,875 people in state prisons. Of them, 16 percent have a drug crime as their most serious offense. There were also 744,600 inmates in county and city jails. (The BOP data is current as of July 16. From BJS, the…

Your quote says that 16% are in with drugs being their most serious crime.

48% include drugs as a crime, but 2/3 of them have a more serious crime as well.

So I'd say the parent is right that 16% are in for drugs and would be set free if drugs were legal. The others in that 48% wouldn't be.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#37

Post by bilbo0s » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:14 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #31

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

No offense, but many with criminal convictions are bad people. I know it may be nice to think otherwise. However there just are many people out there who are difficult if it not impossible to fully integrate into society. then you run into not society but government issues as well. just some examples my cousins run into all the time, they have to use temporary agencies to filter people and stock crews each week. Why?…

>No offense, but many with criminal convictions are bad people...

So are many people without criminal convictions. That's one of life's Great Aporias.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#38

Post by romanovcode » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:15 PM UTC

hvidgaard wrote: post #29

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah! I only judge people on their actions, not their skin or hair or...wait. That's what a criminal record is?

I guess your actions as a child and teenager defines who you are?

Kind of. Why wouldn't they?

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#39

Post by Nasrudith » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:15 PM UTC

caseyscottmckay wrote: post #33

Nasrudith wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't asking just if one has been arrested in an interview for nonlaw enforcement positions technically an illegal question without qualifiers to specifically exclude the ones that didn't result in conviction or admission of guilt? Arrest doesn't imply conviction or even the low bar for indictment. For instance SWAT protocol is to cuff literally everybody else possible on the scene for one and then assess and release…

No that's false. Every single job I've ever applied to has asked about a criminal record. There is, however, a "ban the box" movement in a plurality of states, banning employers from asking potential employees about a criminal record. With the internet documenting all public information, however, it's normally trivial for an employer to do a little research and find the employee's record.

Huh strange that it went straight to banning checking without an innocent until proven guilty standard. I know I have seen plenty of websites for career related where asking if you were convicted had yes, no, or resident of certain states as an effective N/A along with either telling you to select N/A regardless of personal status or flat out forbidding answering if from such a state.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#40

Post by scoggs » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:25 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #31

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

No offense, but many with criminal convictions are bad people. I know it may be nice to think otherwise. However there just are many people out there who are difficult if it not impossible to fully integrate into society. then you run into not society but government issues as well. just some examples my cousins run into all the time, they have to use temporary agencies to filter people and stock crews each week. Why?…

Nothing makes one's life difficult and impossible to integrate into society like a criminal record for smoking a joint, eh?