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Make America Hate Again

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Re: Make America Hate Again

#131

Post by mikeash »

akjainaj wrote: post #115
mikeash wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complaining about it is part of dealing with it. If we can mount enough public pressure, maybe we can get this madman impeached before he does something irreversible.

The only way he's getting impeached is if he does something illegal. Taking into account how the spotlight is on him 24/7, I'm sure he won't do anything dumb that could get him impeached. I like Pence much better than Trump, but nope, that's not going to happen.

There are good arguments that he already has. But ultimately, it doesn't matter. Although technically speaking he needs to break the law to be impeached, in practice you just need a majority of the House to impeach, and two thirds of the Senate to convict. If Congress doesn't want to remove the President, it doesn't matter what laws he breaks. If Congress does want to remove him, then they'll find some legal excuse to justify it. There's no official oversight of the process, nobody to say "no, that crime didn't happen" or "that crime doesn't qualify for impeachment."

Re: Make America Hate Again

#132

Post by mikeash »

pessimizer wrote: post #130
mikeash wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point isn't that it's redundant, but that's it's an unproductive thing to say. If you want to insult someone, you might as well come out and use some curse words. Don't hide behind scientific language.

Banned as an accusation against someone you're arguing against as ad hominem well poisoning? Yes. Otherwise, no.

That's the only way I've ever seen it used.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#133

Post by Shivetya »

kalleboo wrote: post #95
puranjay wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon my ignorance - I'm not American and haven't followed this news - but how is everyone conflating it with "muslims"? I mean, my country has some 140M muslims (India), and my neighbors have some 330M muslims. As a layman, I just read the order and I thought "oh, so it's all war torn countries...but what's Iran doing in there?" not "oh, it's all muslim countries"

Because Trump went to election on "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" [0, donaldjtrump.com] The fact that it was implemented as a ban on citizens from the most prominent Muslim-majority countries (as seen by the eyes of the average American voter, who forgot about Saudi Arabia) could be interpreted as a way for Trump to say he kept his pledge while not being instantly impeached for n…

however he didn't create the list of the countries that were banned.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#134

Post by ThomPete »

notahacker wrote: post #122
ThomPete wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well first you need to establish that Trump are actually doing those things. This is the primary issues once you actually dig into things he might just as well just be nationalist which means occupied with US citizens not world citizens. From the perspective of a nationalist the extreme measures Trump have taken are simply to secure the country. From the perspective of a globalist he is destroying the very foundation…

If one wanted to assess the relative merits of the respective perspectives, one could consider whether the list of nations affected and unaffected corresponded with evidence of relative security risks, what the opinions of people tasked with securing the country were on its likely efficacy, and of course whether Trump's circle discussed the order with those responsible for executing it in order to ensure it was clear…

The list was created by Obama and is meant to look at potential current and future risk countries not who from the past might have been problematic.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#135

Post by wu-ikkyu »

mikeash wrote: post #106
jasonlingx wrote: post #37

Trump campaigned on this. America voted for this. Every nation gets the government it deserves.

How does it make sense to speak about an entire nation deserving anything? I didn't vote for this, but I'm getting it just the same.

This situation is what is known as a double-bind:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind

I.E. When someone tells you "You must be free!", this is a psychological trap, because if you are not free to decide if you want to be free, then you can't really be free.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#136

Post by pluma »

freehunter wrote: post #120
tluyben2 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never heard about that as maybe not a native English speaker. What is it?

I've never heard the phrase, and I read the news every day.

The phrase is more common in social media than in the news. It's not exactly the kind of language you'd expect in a news article.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#137

Post by spangry »

_xhok wrote: post #9
soneca wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"People become sick of this, and vote Trump just to fuck with everyone." This is extremely superficial, arrogant, even offensive to people who voted for Trump. And that is the reason why Trump won IMO. Opposition couldnt understand (not even recognize) the legitimate and valid thoughtful reasons people had to vote for Trump.

I'm talking here about the alt-right, e.g. Milo Yiannopoulos' crowd, who self-profess that this was partly why they voted for Trump. People for whom this election was largely cultural, and saw Trump as a "fuck you" to the safe-space, microaggression, language-policing left. I know they have real concerns, like economic pain, threats to their way of life, and concerns about mass immigration—concerns which, by the way,…

I hope (what I have come to term) 'the authoritarian left' realise that this is basically what the military might call 'blow-back'.

If you're going to stage a cultural revolution you should at least get that there will be some form of counter-revolution at some point. And if your revolution is concerned with things that don't concern the the rest of the populace (and in fact sounds like complete gibberish to them), best of luck with that fight...

Re: Make America Hate Again

#138

Post by Avshalom »

puranjay wrote: post #61
strken wrote: post #14

Make sure to check out the comment down the bottom where Fred Wilson says he'll talk to Disqus about killing Breitbart's account, as well as the related discussion. As a non-American with less to lose, while I think the latest move by Trump is contemptible and stupid, a lot of the response to it seem counter-productive. People here (edit: on HN) and elsewhere are doubling down on hatred, both of Trump supporters and…

Pardon my ignorance - I'm not American and haven't followed this news - but how is everyone conflating it with "muslims"? I mean, my country has some 140M muslims (India), and my neighbors have some 330M muslims. As a layman, I just read the order and I thought "oh, so it's all war torn countries...but what's Iran doing in there?" not "oh, it's all muslim countries"

because 'ban muslims' was the intent according to the administration

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/tr...

Re: Make America Hate Again

#139

Post by pluma »

mikeash wrote: post #113
tluyben2 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never heard about that as maybe not a native English speaker. What is it?

The Wikipedia article seems good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling The short version is, it's when someone acts in a "moral" fashion not because they truly believe it, but because they want others to see them as virtuous. Imagine someone attending a protest purely so that their friends can see them protesting, or donating to charity just so they can tell everyone that they donated.

One minor nitpick: in social media the criticism generally applies mostly to mere statements, especially statements of support or outrage over any given emotionally loaded issue.

Attending a protest or donating to charity is relatively risky and expensive in comparison to just feigning outrage, retweeting slogans or changing your avatar.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#140

Post by justinlaster »

Shivetya wrote: post #133
kalleboo wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Trump went to election on "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" [0, donaldjtrump.com] The fact that it was implemented as a ban on citizens from the most prominent Muslim-majority countries (as seen by the eyes of the average American voter, who forgot about Saudi Arabia) could be interpreted as a way for Trump to say he kept his pledge while not being instantly impeached for n…

however he didn't create the list of the countries that were banned.

This is such a stupid talking point. It's like me setting up a bunch of gas canisters and then someone else coming in and burning those canisters, and then that person proclaiming "I didn't put the canisters there though."
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