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The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

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Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#121

Post by chimprich »

9JollyOtter wrote: post #109
geremiiah wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used the BBC just an example. Starmer seems to have the same attitude. If both Farage and Corbyn, and Polanski and whoever is leading the Conservatives and LibDems are attacking me, then I must be super in the middle i.e. I must be so doing it all super right!

I don't think Starmer really knows what he is doing one way or another. The Island of Strangers speech out flaked Farage to the right. Dominic Cummings had a bunch of interview appearances online. His experience in office when he was working with Johnson (and many Ministers in general) is that they don't actually understand what they can and can't do in the job. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar situation is prese…

I think we can fairly easily dismiss Cummings' views on anything. He was of the opinion that the best thing for the UK economy was Brexit, and that the the best team to carry out that out was to be headed by Boris Johnson.

He changed his mind on Johnson, but he seems to be of the view that nothing works and that there is nothing for it but to burn everything down and start again according to the Dominic Cummings vision.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#122

Post by chimprich »

wormpilled wrote: post #104
whynotmaybe wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't know what's so important about guns and how it's a metric for freedom.

Predators are less likely to attack someone who can defend themselves, it's quite simple.

The empirical evidence from the US does not bear that out. Compare murder rates between the US and any peer country with more gun control.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#123

Post by thmsths »

Aurornis wrote: post #87
jbjbjbjb wrote: post #75

That’s just the way “freedom news” is framing it. Social movements don’t just happen from grassroots these days. They’re seeded by foreign states. A simpler solution would be require ids for social media posting. If you don’t provide an id you get a limited number of views. And I don’t see anything wrong with a preventative system in principle, we should be able to join up social services information with policing, b…

> A simpler solution would be require ids for social media posting It’s strange times when even the comments on posts about government overreach are calling for more government overreach and limitations on speech and privacy. Do you really want to have to verify your ID to post anything online, including HN?

And I am willing to bet that on top of the chilling effect on regular people, it will only act as an inconvenience for the bad actors as they will find ways to circumvent it. Controlling the online discourse is far too valuable, they are not going to just shrug and give up because the government puts up a barrier.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#125

Post by ActorNightly »

varispeed wrote: post #12
spacebanana7 wrote: post #8

This is how you govern from a position of unpopularity. The government knows they’re on the wrong side of many issues, to the point they know they can’t win an open debate. So media control, regulation by enforcement, and institutional control becomes the focus of effort.

Also never look at what current government is going to do with the framework, but what future much worse government could use it for.

Man, its like everyone is blind to the current state of things.

Here is the truth:

* Everyone with above sentiment always votes for anyone libertarian, which is necessarily conservative, and all conservatives are pretty much liars.

* These same conservatives that champion against government overreach, for law and order, and for personal freedoms do the exact opposite once they get into office. Nor do they give a shit about the law.

So yea, the whole libertarian ideology is pretty much dead. Its pretty obvious that the best course of action is to sacrifice personal freedoms and elect a government that can keep a tight rein over the populace and keep things like Nazi ideology from spreading.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#126

Post by widdershins »

fidotron wrote: post #57
azangru wrote: post #48

> The focus of policing is also shifting. As street crime continues to fall, more attention is directed toward protest, dissent, and the perceived risk of unrest. Does street crime in fact continue to fall? I keep hearing about bicycles getting stolen, or how in London, mobile phones get snatched. It was also common to hear how police fails to prosecute various kinds of crime (usually mentioned in contrast to how the…

Everyone in London knows what happens if you try to report "minor" street crime. Obviously everyone saying the UK isn't a utopia is a Russian bot, and we should be censoring them.

Fine, but also how to explain the crazy claims flying around the internet that London is a warzone and a no-go area? I live here and... seriously, nothing has changed. I feel perfectly safe and always have.

Yeah sure, there's some phone theft, it's not great. This phone theft wave is just a symptom of everyone carrying £500 devices around. Big cities have always had theft, pickpocket and snatching crimes. But it's nothing astonishingly new or different. I know one person who had their phone snatched, never seen it happen myself.

So how to explain this massive wave of social media posts making out that London's unsafe? There is definitely a narrative being pushed, whether by Russian bots or not, I cannot say.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#127

Post by Nursie »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #116
simmerup wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran used machine guns in protesters China used tanks against students Russia still has gulags for people who criticise the government You’re incredibly naive if you think they’re the same as us

While you have a point, you are looking at this the wrong way. 20 years ago if you had told someone you needed to get a face scan or upload your ID to view certain websites or that you might get your messages and emails scanned in case you send something that the government deems suspicious to someone else, people would have laughed at you. Yet as we are seeing currently this is what is happening slowly but surely. Y…

> 20 years ago if you had told someone … you might get your messages and emails scanned in case you send something that the government deems suspicious to someone else, people would have laughed at you.

20 years ago we already knew the US government was watching everything.

You haven’t been paying attention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#128

Post by piltdownman »

erichocean wrote: post #24
justincormack wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been ongoing for a long time, its not at all specific to this government.

Huh? Starmer is the least popular Prime Minister, I believe, ever.

Which is even more bizarre given appointing someone as divisive and pig-ignorant as Priti Patel the Home Secretary would have the tabloids crucifying a Labour PM. Johnson and his after-dinner speeches about the Mayor from Jaws forgave a lot of blunders during C19.

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2021/0526/12239...

Remember also that when Sunak stepped down, Priti was put forward for leader. If she had played off her Zionist aspirations just a few years later she'd be right in the current newscycle re proscribed organisations and 'domestic terrorism' charges in the UK, and possibly in the running for the big chair.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priti_Patel#Meetings_with_Isra...

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#129

Post by 9JollyOtter »

chimprich wrote: post #121
9JollyOtter wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Starmer really knows what he is doing one way or another. The Island of Strangers speech out flaked Farage to the right. Dominic Cummings had a bunch of interview appearances online. His experience in office when he was working with Johnson (and many Ministers in general) is that they don't actually understand what they can and can't do in the job. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar situation is prese…

I think we can fairly easily dismiss Cummings' views on anything. He was of the opinion that the best thing for the UK economy was Brexit, and that the the best team to carry out that out was to be headed by Boris Johnson. He changed his mind on Johnson, but he seems to be of the view that nothing works and that there is nothing for it but to burn everything down and start again according to the Dominic Cummings visi…

> He was of the opinion that the best thing for the UK economy was Brexit, and that the the best team to carry out that out was to be headed by Boris Johnson.

Not exactly. I think you need to listen to the interviews.

Dominic Cummins has solid rationale for why he believes what he believes. I would need to listen to them again to remember what he said, but what you are describing was too simplistic.

Also his opinions on Brexit have nothing to do with some of the things he said about how COVID was handled.

> He changed his mind on Johnson, but he seems to be of the view that nothing works and that there is nothing for it but to burn everything down and start again according to the Dominic Cummings vision.

I don't remember him saying that exactly.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#130

Post by baal80spam »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #46
miroljub wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So media control, regulation by enforcement, and institutional control becomes the focus of effort. You forgot gun control. That's the first thing they took away. Thereafter, freedom after freedom has been made optional by the government [1]. When government becomes overreaching, and you don't have the means to protect yourself and your rights, that's where it goes. [1] I said "government", but probably "regime" wo…

i’m absolutely, concretely and overwhelmingly fine with the concept of gun control here as a uk citizen. i say this as someone who did target rifle shooting as a kid. so, i’ve been around weapons in a positive way. the controls are a good thing.

> i’m absolutely, concretely and overwhelmingly fine with the concept of gun control here as a uk citizen.

That... speaks volumes of the citizens of the said country.

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