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We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

theguardian.com

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Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#121

Post by imtringued »

oddeyed wrote: post #58
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with a post like this is that it tries to guilt the individual and their consumerism - but individuals cannot have enough of an impact. It's up to our chosen representatives to e.g. ban the import of soy and beef from Brazil. The net effect to the individual will be that beef is either more expensive or simply no longer available - and that's fine, there's plenty of local and renewable alternatives. No, f…

I'm curious how you think that a country would ever stop consuming soy from Brazil unless there was a strong desire from the populace of the country to stop doing so. Markets allow you to vote every time you buy something on what your values are. Every time you choose to buy something from, say Brazil, that will be read as an endorsement of Brazil whenever someone looks at a balance sheet of imports and decides wheth…

> Every time you choose to buy something from, say Brazil, that will be read as an endorsement of Brazil

But that decision was not made by the consumer. It was made by the executives of Burger King who decided to buy beef from a factory farm that has decided to buy soy from Brazil which has farmers that have decided to exploit the rain forest because the government has decided to not do anything against it.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#122

Post by CalRobert »

22dingdongdung wrote: post #94
fit2rule wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family and I have changed our ways. I used to live a typically American lifestyle - spending 4 hours every day in the car, mostly parked on a freeway, to get to work. Ordering takeout 5 times a week because I was too exhausted to cook for myself. Buying useless crap that filled my house, only to get a bigger house for more useless crap. But, after the 9/11 attacks, I took a good hard look at myself. You could say,…

(I'll be labelled a bigot but go look at the increased crimes...) I want to move to Europe someplace without the immigrant problem- is Austria good?

"move to Europe"

"the immigrant problem"

Well, you see, the act you're referring to is "immigration" so, by definition, no.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#123

Post by CalRobert »

fit2rule wrote: post #68
CalRobert wrote: post #17

The tragic thing is that there's this idea you have to live life as an austere pioneer hippie to address this. You really don't. A world of mostly-vegetarian people living in modern, timber (for carbon sequestration) flats in mixed-use environments, using renewable electricity to power their heat pumps and AC, traveling primarily via bike, walking, and public transport, and owning less disposable crap would go a long…

My family and I have changed our ways. I used to live a typically American lifestyle - spending 4 hours every day in the car, mostly parked on a freeway, to get to work. Ordering takeout 5 times a week because I was too exhausted to cook for myself. Buying useless crap that filled my house, only to get a bigger house for more useless crap. But, after the 9/11 attacks, I took a good hard look at myself. You could say,…

Would love to compare notes! Left the US in 2013, and living on a bit of land in Ireland at the moment. Remote work helps a lot.

The city trap is a big problem for a few reasons, and I LOVE cities. Sadly we have artificially constrained them (especially in the US, where it's illegal to build a real city and not just a zombie stretch of suburbia). In short, if you're in debt for the necessities of life (i.e. you have a mortgage) you are not free to choose your actions, and instead must choose them in a way that helps in servicing your debt.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#124

Post by CalRobert »

teddyuk wrote: post #34
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but like parent said, we're starved of time. I would love to bike or take public transport to work but that's over an hour of commute vs 20-25 minutes by car and I don't live in the middle of nowhere but in a medium sized European city. The problem is the employers who move to the sticks, far away from the cties, where office space is cheapest and assume their workers can afford cars and should commute. Not only…

In london commuter trains are over crowded and they spend millions (billions?) every year on upgrading and it costs me about £900 a month to use these trains. If governments incentivised companies to encourage remote work, this money would be unnecessary as many people wouldn't commute any more - saving money for everyone, saving the environment and allowing people to have a home life and see their kids/partner etc.…

They could also make it easier for people to live near their jobs. It's surprising how quickly you hit low density areas, even near the train.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#125

Post by johnisgood »

CalRobert wrote: post #122
22dingdongdung wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I'll be labelled a bigot but go look at the increased crimes...) I want to move to Europe someplace without the immigrant problem- is Austria good?

"move to Europe" "the immigrant problem" Well, you see, the act you're referring to is "immigration" so, by definition, no.

Moving to Europe does not inherently turn into an "immigrant problem" though. He needs to specify what he means by problem.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#126

Post by Hitton »

sdoering wrote: post #61
lagadu wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I am your boogeyman: I eat meat regularly, have investments, grew up and live in the middle of a western society. By default I'm inclined to stop doing exactly zero of those, and by saying "you're at fault no matter what you do or don't do" you've just removed the sole remaining incentive for me to stop doing it: being able to say "it's not my fault". If I'm to blame no matter what I do, I might as well enjoy…

Hello boogeyman - then let me be your counter example. I eat meat regularly. But it is not that much - compared to the national average. And I know exactly that neither the cattle, nor their food came from anywhere near the Amazonas. I only eat meat when I know the producer and how they produced it. In my case it is a local farm that is a closed system: They grow what they need to feed their cattle - and use the manu…

Your German organic farm is most likely heavily subsidised (as all EU farms are) so it does in fact take advantage of same system which profits off the actions in Amazon. So you are just one more step removed.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#127

Post by rayiner »

reallydontask wrote: post #95
rayiner wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A world of mostly-vegetarian people living in modern, timber (for carbon sequestration) flats in mixed-use environments, using renewable electricity to power their heat pumps and AC, traveling primarily via bike, walking, and public transport, and owning less disposable crap would go a long, long way Can you quantify that into something more precise than a fuzzy feeling?

What kind of units are you after? It is clear that the proposal would lead to a lot less energy usage and less pollution and thus to a cleaner environment, places where most energy generates little pollution would see the fewer benefits, which would help to ameliorate the effects of climate change.

Like degrees of avoided warming. Because the proposal above is not sufficient to avoid climate change in any significant respect, especially a counting for increased living standards in India and China.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#128

Post by forgottenpass »

sound_vapours wrote: post #97
CalRobert wrote: post #17

The tragic thing is that there's this idea you have to live life as an austere pioneer hippie to address this. You really don't. A world of mostly-vegetarian people living in modern, timber (for carbon sequestration) flats in mixed-use environments, using renewable electricity to power their heat pumps and AC, traveling primarily via bike, walking, and public transport, and owning less disposable crap would go a long…

>You could hire an EV for a weekend excursion or take a slow, internet-connected ship to travel for an overseas holiday. I think part of the reason air travel is so popular is that people are trying to make the best of what little vacation time they have. Slow travel would be so much nicer if one could afford an extra week dedicated to the journey.

Yeah, spending even more time in cramped quarters, exactly what I want to do with my hypothetical extra vacation time.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#129

Post by COGlory »

propater wrote: post #11
trabant00 wrote: post #3

Reading this from Eastern Europe the "you" in: "You destroy our lands" "that common enemy is you" "We call on you to stop what you are doing" "When your money comes into our communities" etc sound very wrong. I imagine it also sounds weird for people in America who have no connections with what happens in the Amazon.

I am always a bit baffled when, after decades of living in a globalized economy, people who are part of advanced economies claim they have no connections to events, driven by economics, occurring on the other side of the world. If you eat meat regularly, you are connected to Brazil's deforestation, either for cattle or for soy feed. If you have invested in the stock market, you are most likely connected to the intern…

I disagree. All that these types of articles do is attempt to shift responsibility and blame from the people actually capable of doing something about it to a vague and distant "bad actor" elsewhere: the irresponsible consumer, who is somehow expected to deconvolute foreign supply chains, as well as stay abreast of the environmental happenings in the entire world.

The truth is, whether we like it or not, the only people capable of effectively tracking and addressing the responsibility of Brazil's economy and ecology are people living in Brazil.

And this isn't some excuse I've invented for myself. I buy 100% of my groceries from a farmers co-op where everything is sourced within about 500 miles or so. But the fact of the matter is, Brazil needs to do a better job and address their own problems, regardless of the world economy, and this is just an attempt to shift blame. Every single environmental regulation that has been passed, in any country in the world, 1st or 3rd world, occurred at financial loss to that country. Brazil is no exception.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#130

Post by rajlego »

darepublic wrote: post #73

So what should be done? Boycott Brazilian products? Stop eating meat? Stop eating meat specifically if it comes from Brazil?

Not eating meat is reasonable for people in most first world countries. It would be harder to boycott Brazilian products though.
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