Live data from Hacker News

We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

theguardian.com

11–20 of 168 posts

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#11

Reading this from Eastern Europe the "you" in: "You destroy our lands" "that common enemy is you" "We call on you to stop what you are doing" "When your money comes into our communities" etc sound very wrong. I imagine it also sounds weird for people in America who have no connections with what happens in the Amazon.

I am always a bit baffled when, after decades of living in a globalized economy, people who are part of advanced economies claim they have no connections to events, driven by economics, occurring on the other side of the world.

If you eat meat regularly, you are connected to Brazil's deforestation, either for cattle or for soy feed. If you have invested in the stock market, you are most likely connected to the international flow of capital, which is also driving said deforestation.

Even if you are not doing any of that, you are still connected because you live in the middle of a society that reaps economic and material benefits from the structures that ultimately incentivise said deforestation.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#12
post #4

We are all full of fears, except those who are blind to the inevitable consequences of their disconsidered acts against nature.

People are rarely actually blind to the consequences of their actions. Most people know exactly what they're doing, especially if they're not working alone. If someone is doing something you believe is bad it's because they have prioritised something else (usually, but not always, personal gain).

Not just personal gain. The benefits of industrialisation and capitalism have been tremendous for people’s quality of life, stability of their food supply, access to medicine, work hours, work conditions. If it has an impact on the climate it is regrettable and should be mitigated as possible, but it is still a major net positive.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#13
post #6

We are all full of fears, except those who are blind to the inevitable consequences of their disconsidered acts against nature.

the only thing that really worries me is humanity going back to pre-modern technology levels, this time with full-on communism added for good measure, all in the name of climate protection. otherwise i find climate change to be something that prepares us for colonising other places: planets and climates change; 300 million years ago Venus was the place to be, today it's Earth, tomorrow it will be the outer planets, s…

"It's up to us to learn from it so we can control it"

We do control climate change. What we do not control today is our society and our ability to enact political choices that would change our course.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#14
post #5

I am not sure that many Brazilian farmers are reading the Guardian. But if it can help the editor’s ego...

Brazil exports loads of food. Not buying meats from Brazil (not so common in Western countries, though) is one of the most effective ways to change the situation.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#15
post #5

I am not sure that many Brazilian farmers are reading the Guardian. But if it can help the editor’s ego...

I'm not sure the Guardian editor is reading you commnent either, so why are you posting?

The answer is that articles like this may inform other influencers. Such as those who consume Brazilian products.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#16
post #5

I am not sure that many Brazilian farmers are reading the Guardian. But if it can help the editor’s ego...

I'm not sure the Guardian editor is reading you commnent either, so why are you posting? The answer is that articles like this may inform other influencers. Such as those who consume Brazilian products.

I am not trying to change the behaviour of the Guardian, merely pointing at its virtu signalling.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#17
The tragic thing is that there's this idea you have to live life as an austere pioneer hippie to address this. You really don't.

A world of mostly-vegetarian people living in modern, timber (for carbon sequestration) flats in mixed-use environments, using renewable electricity to power their heat pumps and AC, traveling primarily via bike, walking, and public transport, and owning less disposable crap would go a long, long way.

You could hire an EV for a weekend excursion or take a slow, internet-connected ship to travel for an overseas holiday.

I don't think living that way sounds especially terrible, to be honest.

Also, make 3 months' vacation the minimum. Turn off Slack at 5 PM. We have so much material crap it's hard to fathom, but many people are horribly starved of time. If I had more time I know I'd cook more and work in the garden more instead of ordering takeaway.

A huge amount of human endeavour is spent helping a relatively few rich people suck a bit more of the Earth before it implodes.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#18

Reading this from Eastern Europe the "you" in: "You destroy our lands" "that common enemy is you" "We call on you to stop what you are doing" "When your money comes into our communities" etc sound very wrong. I imagine it also sounds weird for people in America who have no connections with what happens in the Amazon.

I am always a bit baffled when, after decades of living in a globalized economy, people who are part of advanced economies claim they have no connections to events, driven by economics, occurring on the other side of the world. If you eat meat regularly, you are connected to Brazil's deforestation, either for cattle or for soy feed. If you have invested in the stock market, you are most likely connected to the intern…

The problem with a post like this is that it tries to guilt the individual and their consumerism - but individuals cannot have enough of an impact. It's up to our chosen representatives to e.g. ban the import of soy and beef from Brazil. The net effect to the individual will be that beef is either more expensive or simply no longer available - and that's fine, there's plenty of local and renewable alternatives.

No, focusing on and guilting the individual is, pardon my conspiracy theory language, what They want. They want you to buy more expensive organic produce, They want you to buy a new lower-emissions car at a premium price, and most importantly, They want to blame you for what They are doing - They don't care about the amazon in particular, They care about profits, and if you're too distracted with changing your own lifestyle, They can push forward with their own policies to make more money.

If a whole country stops e.g. consuming soy from Brazil, there's going to be ten others that will buy it anyway because profits or deals will almost always beat morals.

And even if a country bans importing soy from Brazil, there's plenty of produce laundering going on - China will move their products to e.g. Malaysia and rebrand it as "made in Malaysia" to avoid trade tariffs or quotas.

And it doesn't stop there. A country can claim to recycle plastic in a renewable fashion for example, but what they aren't aware of - or turn a blind eye to - is that the recycling company they trust just bales up the plastics and ships it off to Asia, where they just burn it or chuck it in landfills. As soon as it crosses the border, it's no longer their problem. (Trash exports should be banned worldwide)

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#19
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is directed at all non-indigenous people. We all do have connections to what is happening in the Amazon. Our way of life is part of the problem.

Too many people is the real problem.

oh then we're on the right path!
Post reply on HN