Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Abuses show Assange case was never about law

jonathan-cook.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 156 posts

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#121

Post by AnaniasAnanas »

gamblor956 wrote: post #100
cheeseomlit wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's that? Leaking info about corruption in a political party doesn't make them Russian puppets just because you happen to be a member of that party.

No, but knowingly releasing documents that were partially or entirely forged by the Russian intelligence agencies does make one a Russian puppet. Which is exactly what Wikileaks did, openly, at Assange's direction...despite the misgivings of the rest of the staff that the releases were timed for political effect on the US campaign on not out of some desire for the truth.

> releasing documents that were partially or entirely forged by the Russian intelligence agencies does make one a Russian puppet

The few emails that I checked had a valid dkim signature.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#122

Post by wbhart »

gamblor956 wrote: post #118
wbhart wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are only claiming they potentially do. It is unlikely the DOJ would seek the death penalty for the particular violations, especially since he would not be extradited if they did. What happens after he sets foot on US soil though is unclear (as in, I don't know what the law says about adding charges after the extradition).

It doesn't matter what people claim that the charges may "potentially" carry the death penalty because that would violate reality. The death penalty would exceed the maximum authorized statutory punishment for the charges laid against Assange. Moreover, while it would not violate both international law, various treaties, and the US Constitution protections on due process to charge Assange with crimes that could theor…

I am not convinced by any of this. His lawyers have argued repeatedly that he should not be extradited because he would face the death penalty, torture or mistreatment. Ecuador sought written assurances from the UK that he would not be extradited to any country where he would face the death penalty, including the US. The UK has stated it will not extradite him to any country where he faces the death penalty. But this is based on what he has currently been charged with, not what he may be charged with under the espionage act (core political charges).

Whilst I am sure you are correct that the specific charges against him in the superceding indictment do not carry the death penalty, other charges could.

I'm ignorant enough to not see why you believe it would be a violation of international law, treaties and the US Consitution to execute him. The US executes people and subjects them to solitary confinement and even punitive measures that lead to death of inmates all the time (take the recent example of someone who the jailers denied water for seven days until he died).

You don't have to look further than the treatment of then Bradley (now Chelsea) Manning to see that Assange has a very real basis for believing that he would not have his rights respected (which in his case, as far as I can see, could very well include application of the death penalty).

Just to clarify what I originally replied. I'm saying that the very willingness of the US to charge Assange under the espionage act shows their willingness to apply a law that could potentially be used to seek capital punishment. That is what people are complaining about, not that he has actually at this time been charged with a specific violation that would result in the death penalty.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#123

Post by YUMad »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #70
YUMad wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) 'Rape' as in he didn't go and test himself for STDs when the woman he had sex with demanded it afterward. 2) Do you think no woman ever made up accusations about being raped? Every black man lynched for 'raping a white woman' really did rape them?

> ’Rape' as in he didn't go and test himself for STDs when the woman he had sex with demanded it afterward This is false. The allegation is he got consent for sex with a condom. He then surreptitiously removed the condom.

No, it is not false. The woman originally demanded he gets tested, only after he refused she claimed there wad no consent for unprotected sex.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#124

Post by YUMad »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #71
YUMad wrote: post #63

The guy ran and seeked asylum because he feared he will 'be made an example of' by USA. He sat in that tiny room for 6 years while US actors were working hard to smear him as a rapist and Russian puppet, while insinuating that everyone who claims USA is targeting Assange, or that there are indictments just waiting for his arrest is a conspiracy theorist. The moment he was removed from the embassy protection (again, a…

The Russian puppet claims only started after Wikileaks started acting like a Russian puppet.

The Russian puppet claims only started after Hillary lost to Trump, and they had no recourse but to push forward with the Trump-Russia collusion narrative, which was originally prepared to punish Trump after he loses.

Since he won, the holes in narrative were not covered up well, and it has fallen/is falling apart.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#125

Post by gamblor956 »

jMyles wrote: post #52
gamblor956 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting choice of examples. Cody was accused of sexually assaulting an under-age girl and fled to Taiwan to avoid arrest... Innocent people don't run. Especially not before they've even seen what the evidence against them is.

> Innocent people don't run. I don't think this is a fair or universal generalization. Snowden ran. Leary ran. Rushdie ran. The Dalai Lama ran. Sometimes innocent people run.

None of your examples are comparable.

Snowden ran after charges were filed against him. He admits to his actions. If he had stayed, he could have beaten the charges in court, because it is a defense to prosecution for a lesser crime to be committed (improper process of whistleblowing) to prevent a worse crime (various). But while Snowden is not innocent of the crime, he's simply got a valid defense to negate a guilty finding.

Rushdie fled a fatwa issued by a religious cleric, not the government, following the publication of The Satanic Verses. He was not charged with a crime by the government, but numerous individuals attempted to assassinate him for what they viewed as blasphemy of their religion.

The Dalai Lama, the then-legitimate ruler of Nepal, fled the Chinese occupiers of his country and set up a government-in-exile. He has never been charged with a crime by China.

Timothy Leary actually did commit a number of drug-related crimes including distribution, and ran because he was quite guilty. He also got caught a number of times and saw the inside of a number of jails and prisons...

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#126

Post by gamblor956 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31
gamblor956 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting choice of examples. Cody was accused of sexually assaulting an under-age girl and fled to Taiwan to avoid arrest... Innocent people don't run. Especially not before they've even seen what the evidence against them is.

> fled to Taiwan to avoid arrest “He had not been charged when he went to Taiwan, so he is not considered to have fled the country“ [1]. Based on the original story, there should be plenty of evidence forthcoming. No need to jump to conclusions. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/business/cody-wilson-arre...

Police have said that Wilson flew to Taipei before they were able to interview him about the allegations. He never took his scheduled flight back to the United States.

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/09/21/3d-printed-gun-desig...

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#127

Post by [deleted] »

ribs wrote: post #53
gamblor956 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting choice of examples. Cody was accused of sexually assaulting an under-age girl and fled to Taiwan to avoid arrest... Innocent people don't run. Especially not before they've even seen what the evidence against them is.

This is a heinous notion. Innocent people flee prosecution when it’s biased or political as well. You law-and-order types can xxxxx my yyyyy.

[deleted]

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#128

Post by _dczq »

YUMad wrote: post #124
NelsonMinar wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russian puppet claims only started after Wikileaks started acting like a Russian puppet.

The Russian puppet claims only started after Hillary lost to Trump, and they had no recourse but to push forward with the Trump-Russia collusion narrative, which was originally prepared to punish Trump after he loses. Since he won, the holes in narrative were not covered up well, and it has fallen/is falling apart.

Now you have developed your own conspiracy to prove how wrong other people’s conspiracy was. Do you see the irony?

Why did Assange defend Putin after the Panama Papers? I thought he loved transparency. When did Assange start his RT show, funded by the Russian state?

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#129

Post by megous »

AnaniasAnanas wrote: post #121
gamblor956 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but knowingly releasing documents that were partially or entirely forged by the Russian intelligence agencies does make one a Russian puppet. Which is exactly what Wikileaks did, openly, at Assange's direction...despite the misgivings of the rest of the staff that the releases were timed for political effect on the US campaign on not out of some desire for the truth.

> releasing documents that were partially or entirely forged by the Russian intelligence agencies does make one a Russian puppet The few emails that I checked had a valid dkim signature.

Technically, if you hack a mail server, you'll get access to DKIM private keys. I would only trust these mails DKIM signature if I personally received them prior to the breach.

Otherwise it's a very weak proof.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#130

Post by chacha2 »

Tomte wrote: post #85
wbhart wrote: post #67

According to the UN Special Rapporteur on torture, who just visited Assange [1], he has fallen gravely ill and shows all the signs of prolonged psychological torture. Apparently at first he assumed Assange was just a good actor, but after visiting him it had become clear to him and the medical experts with him that this is a case of treatment amounting to psychological torture, the likes of which (psychological, not…

> that this is a case of treatment amounting to psychological torture I don't deny his symptoms, but I strongly deny that "his treatment" by others led to those symptoms. His own decisions and actions, namely, to live in a cramped room for years, and not going to see a doctor, led to those. Now, you may argue that he was right to do so. But it was by his own volition. Sweden would have given him first-class medical t…

This is a deeply ignorant statement considering he's currently looking at being extracted to the US, who are considering a 175 year sentence. The article you're commenting on lists all the anomalies that happened with his case.

The choice appears to be stay in the embassy and hope his lawyers could have closed the warrant or spend the rest of his life in solitary confinement as Chelsea Manning was. To say any of this was his choice is an incredibly cruel take.

Post reply on HN