Live data from Hacker News

Abuses show Assange case was never about law

jonathan-cook.net

51–60 of 156 posts

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#51
post #20
post #5

> When Assange’s popular recognition fell, and Ecuador’s political incentives changed, the asylum was rescinded. An important side note: this is the why the state always attacks the personality and popularity of activists, and why it's important to defend personalities and people. For example, let me say that, having met Cody Wilson several times and spending several hours with him on a couple of occasions (and moder…

This guy? https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/01/texas-indicts-co... It's absolutely routine for basically anyone accused of sexual assault to find a whole bunch of men reporting that they seemed to be a standup guy. That doesn't mean they remain a standup guy when left alone around women.

> That doesn't mean they remain a standup guy when left alone around women.

Agreed, of course. I'm just speaking of my own experience.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#52
post #5

> When Assange’s popular recognition fell, and Ecuador’s political incentives changed, the asylum was rescinded. An important side note: this is the why the state always attacks the personality and popularity of activists, and why it's important to defend personalities and people. For example, let me say that, having met Cody Wilson several times and spending several hours with him on a couple of occasions (and moder…

Interesting choice of examples. Cody was accused of sexually assaulting an under-age girl and fled to Taiwan to avoid arrest... Innocent people don't run. Especially not before they've even seen what the evidence against them is.

> Innocent people don't run.

I don't think this is a fair or universal generalization.

Snowden ran. Leary ran. Rushdie ran. The Dalai Lama ran. Sometimes innocent people run.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#53
post #5

> When Assange’s popular recognition fell, and Ecuador’s political incentives changed, the asylum was rescinded. An important side note: this is the why the state always attacks the personality and popularity of activists, and why it's important to defend personalities and people. For example, let me say that, having met Cody Wilson several times and spending several hours with him on a couple of occasions (and moder…

Interesting choice of examples. Cody was accused of sexually assaulting an under-age girl and fled to Taiwan to avoid arrest... Innocent people don't run. Especially not before they've even seen what the evidence against them is.

This is a heinous notion. Innocent people flee prosecution when it’s biased or political as well. You law-and-order types can xxxxx my yyyyy.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what this reminds me of, COINTELPRO. We are too ready to believe these sort of things. It is the perfect tool for governments.

Since you're replying to the top comment, are you saying COINTELPRO is creating this story in favor of journalism and journalistic rights, wanting to save Assange? That seems wildly counter to COINTELPRO's history.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#55
post #8

Background for anyone who doesn't know: Jonathan Cook is a writer for the alt-right conspiracy rag, The Unz Review: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-unz-report/ This article is attempting to draw lines where there aren't. Julian Assange did in fact flee to the Ecuadorian embassy in order to escape rape charges. That he did so because he feared extradition to the US is correct, but that does not change the original…

> Jonathan Cook is a writer for the alt-right conspiracy rag This is the new attack vector of the left: if you associate with, speak to, write about or interview anyone who has ever said anything "bad", you are "bad", forever, and that's it. The definition of ad homimen . Newsflash for you: the old media models are dead. People publish things in all kinds of fora. This doesn't make you a stereotype or representation…

It's an analog to what they do on Reddit: ”just looked at your post history and you said ____. OMG”. This is black mirror coming true.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're just making stuff up. Here is Jonathan Cook's bio: " rel="nofollow">https://www.jonathan-cook.net/about/> I don't see any relation to the Unz report nor do I understand why you're even mentioning it. The page you link to doesn't mention Johnathan Cook at all. Please provide a citation that backs up your allegation.

This should be a good enough citation: http://www.unz.com/jcook/endless-procedural-abuses-show-juli... It's the same article, published on the UNZ review. The UNZ review also helpfully gives you a page of all articles a given author has published on their page. http://www.unz.com/author/jonathan-cook/ It seems conclusive that Jonathan Cook is a regular writer for the UNZ review.

I don't know anything about Jonathan Cook but calling somebody a regular writer somewhere when they actually just write articles for syndication feels disingenuous.

UNZ is fringe. It definitely posts some anti-semitic stuff, some truther stuff, some straight up foreign propaganda... That said, I've always seen it as a sort of free speech public service, a place where you can go and dip into some wrong stuff. It's an intellectually interesting place even if you disagree with most of the articles there.

You can also read Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul there. There is something to be said for writers allowing a place like that to exist. By allowing their work to be published there, they are making a statement against censorship. UNZ feels more philosophical and principled than some sort of hate speech depot. This isn't Stormfront.

Here is a quote from the mission statement:

"This is not to say that I personally agree with all or even most of what these writers believe or claim. However, sometimes the most valuable insights are obtained by reading opinions sharply divergent from one’s own. Facing a sharp intellectual or ideological challenge forces us to more effectively frame our arguments and buttress the weaknesses in our logic and evidence that had previously remained unnoticed. Taking the measure of an effective critic is always more valuable than listening to a mindless echo. And I would always prefer reading something disturbing than something dull."

https://www.unz.com/masthead/

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#57
post #15

How could anyone possibly think this was ever about the law? When he first published "Collateral Murder", you knew what it was about, and you knew how it would (eventually) end for him. Does anyone not living under a rock, think what is happening to Assange is even remotely based on law and justice? spoiler alert: it's not!

Do you think the rape charges were made from nothing?

Did you follow the Snowden case? In early interviews he talked about working for the CIA and in order to coerce a senior official, they got him drunk and then had the cops arrest him for DUI. Then told him if he didn't comply, the DUI charges would end his career. Can you put 2 and 2 together here?

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#58

How could anyone possibly think this was ever about the law? When he first published "Collateral Murder", you knew what it was about, and you knew how it would (eventually) end for him. Does anyone not living under a rock, think what is happening to Assange is even remotely based on law and justice? spoiler alert: it's not!

> you knew how it would (eventually) end for him Deep Throat, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein did fine [1]. I’m not convinced that, had Wikileaks filtered their material like the ICIJ did with the Panama Papers [2], they would have been charged. Ignoring the collateral damage caused by Assange’s decision not to curate, like every journalist is trained to do, doesn’t make it immaterial. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/…

My first reaction to this is that the climate has changed since then. The use of the Espionage Act and nonjudicial targeting of reporters and leakers has been on the rise for a few decades; it's not just Assange but Thomas Drake, John Kiriakou, Joseph Wilson, and Barrett Brown. If James Bamford published the equivalent of Inside the Puzzle Palace today, I'd fully expect him to face prosecution. The softer reaction to the Panama Papers had less to do with protections for responsible publication than with the leaker never being caught, and the near-total absence of notable Americans.

But honestly, saying earlier leakers did fine also seems pretty selective. Deep Throat did fine because he kept his identity secret for 30 years. Woodward did well because his publications forced Nixon to resign, producing an administration that wasn't being directly harmed by the leaks.

Before Nixon's resignation, those associated with leaks suffered quite a bit more. Daniel Ellsberg had his medical records stolen from his psychiatrist's office. When Nixon thought the Brookings Institute had Vietnam files, he ordered their office robbed and later planned a firebombing to enable an FBI raid; this was apparently preempted only because the Pentagon Papers were published. Other reporters and editors were regularly targeted with tax audits for criticizing Nixon. Martha Mitchell was kidnapped and sedated to prevent her from discussing her husband's role in Watergate. Many of the people targeted most heavily, for instance for FBI harassment and break-ins, were activists instead of reporters, but Assange's place on that continuum is hardly clear.

It does seem excessive to claim that this was an inevitable outcome. But I don't think the recent or Nixon-era experiences of leakers justify any belief whatsoever that responsible leakers face less retribution.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're just making stuff up. Here is Jonathan Cook's bio: " rel="nofollow">https://www.jonathan-cook.net/about/> I don't see any relation to the Unz report nor do I understand why you're even mentioning it. The page you link to doesn't mention Johnathan Cook at all. Please provide a citation that backs up your allegation.

Anyone who questions the official narrative with evidence and logic is deemed an alt-right conspiracy theorist now. I've seen people try it with Chomsky.

I am far away from what is called "alt-right" (brown Mexican, pro-socialism and critical to the current US government) and still feel that what this article is describing is quite right.

Julian Assange's case has been a witch hunt, from the "outside" it is so easy to see, how the US institutions move the strings to get a person. It almost happened with Gary Mckinnon, it happened with some hackers in Australia, it was about to (and still might) happen to Edward Snowden.

Like it or not, US influence in the world right now looks very similar to how the Roman empire was, and as it is expected, it will do everything possible to keep it that way.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#60
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy? https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/01/texas-indicts-co... It's absolutely routine for basically anyone accused of sexual assault to find a whole bunch of men reporting that they seemed to be a standup guy. That doesn't mean they remain a standup guy when left alone around women.

Why can't they just be a standup guy that has issues dealing with women in specific circumstances? Why are they defined by that specific case and not their holistic behavior?

[deleted]
Post reply on HN