Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism • Hacker News Board

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#121

Post by pbhjpbhj » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 8:47 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #68

rixrax wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Just had friends visiting. Their teenage son had had his wisdom tooth pulled last week. Dentist had then given him (as a standard practice?) prescription for Ibuprofen (800mg tabs?) AND some opioid based pain killer! Needless to say, latter they said went directly to trash after they realized what it contained and for ibuprofen they halved the dosage. To me and his parents this was pain management gone way over…

Move to Europe where we don't get as many drugs prescribed? I think the only time you get opioids is after major surgery. Personally I don't know anybody who had to take them.

Co-codamol (codeine and paracetamol) is widely prescribed IME in the UK, eg for back pain, muscle pain.

I had Oramorph for abdominal pain (in hospital, no surgery thankfully). The condition may have been caused by medium term use of Ibuprofen (in my non-medical opinion).

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#122

Post by gaius » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 8:53 AM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #92

eaandkw wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly you have never been in the USMC. In hind sight it was pretty stupid but I have taken up to 1600mg per day for several days/ weeks in a row. We pretty much call the 800mg tablets grunt candy.

What is happening that gets everyone so inflamed? If you take a painkiller and go right back to the activity that damaged you you are begging for permanent injury.

Wear and tear on the knees generally. And yes, many infantrymen do have permanent problems by their 30's.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#123

Post by sannee » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 8:54 AM UTC

emersonrsantos wrote: post #31

Ibuprofen induced liver toxiticy: https://livertox.nih.gov/Ibuprofen.htm "Rates of serum aminotransferase elevations during low dose, chronic ibuprofen therapy are comparable to those that occur with placebo controls (0.4%). However, higher rates of ALT elevations occur with high, full doses of 2,400 to 3,200 mg daily (up to 16%)."

> high, full doses of 2,400 to 3,200 mg daily

Holy shit that's a lot of ibuprofen. If you are taking that much every day, you definitely have some more pressing concern than liver toxicity...

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#124

Post by Godel_unicode » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 8:55 AM UTC

xerxe-sans-s wrote: post #80

snibss wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point being: it's a psychological study, in relation to behavior and emotion, which cannot be measured with NEARLY the same degree of ease or precision as sex-related endocrine effects. It's behavior, and thus potentially non-replicable. It's soft science at best. Is someone being a jerk? Is it some strange long term NSAID side-effect? Why are they being so cold and callous? Is this just an artifact of social bia…

Your first argument discounted psychological studies primarily on the basis that there are two many dimensions to account for in relation to a measurement of behavior. You then went on to suggest a link between gender identification and the results of a study on a single variable. It’s probably the case there are many environmental and physical dimensions at play with gender identity. While I can’t say at this point…

You're literally replying to a comment which makes this exact point.

> Well, we can introduce a protocol, and study it, and know conclusively in perhaps 10 years. But, between then and now...

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#125

Post by stolsvik » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 9:19 AM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #62

sergiotapia wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same just did that. >resulted in the clinical condition named "compensated hypogonadism," a condition prevalent among elderly men and associated with reproductive and physical disorders. In the men, luteinizing hormone (LH) and ibuprofen plasma levels were positively correlated, and the testosterone/LH ratio decreased. Fuck that. I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though

>I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though You don't have to give them anything. Ibuprofen doesn't make the underlying infection causing the fever go away any quicker, it just alleviates the symptoms. It's a trade off between reducing short-term suffering and risking long-term defects. Personally my parents never gave me painkillers for fever and I'm grateful for it: fever pain is just a tempor…

These kind of sentiments really scare and provokes me. Telling anyone that they shouldn't alleviate kids fever and/or pain is absolutely revolting to me.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#126

Post by stolsvik » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 9:23 AM UTC

14 wrote: post #112

logicchains wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though You don't have to give them anything. Ibuprofen doesn't make the underlying infection causing the fever go away any quicker, it just alleviates the symptoms. It's a trade off between reducing short-term suffering and risking long-term defects. Personally my parents never gave me painkillers for fever and I'm grateful for it: fever pain is just a tempor…

My guess is the down vote comes from someone thinking your comment sounds like you don't have any children or know what you are talking about. You don't give ibuprofen for pain during a fever, though doctors will say it can help because often times the source of the fever will cause pain like an ear infection or strep throat, you give it to reduce the temperature. There is a serious risk of seizure in children if you…

Why do you not help your kids when they are in pain?! This is truly shocking to me, it is definitely a cruel and inhumane sentiment.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#127

Post by z3t4 » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 10:01 AM UTC

zzz95 wrote: post #103

sergiotapia wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same just did that. >resulted in the clinical condition named "compensated hypogonadism," a condition prevalent among elderly men and associated with reproductive and physical disorders. In the men, luteinizing hormone (LH) and ibuprofen plasma levels were positively correlated, and the testosterone/LH ratio decreased. Fuck that. I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though

Ordinarily, you should not try to suppress fevers. Fevers are beneficial and in fact, body's defense mechanism [1]. [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/fever...

High fever is not good. While I think you should be restrictive with medications. There's no need to suffer more then necessary. It's also a good idea to seek medical consulting.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#128

Post by raverbashing » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 10:01 AM UTC

zzz95 wrote: post #103

sergiotapia wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same just did that. >resulted in the clinical condition named "compensated hypogonadism," a condition prevalent among elderly men and associated with reproductive and physical disorders. In the men, luteinizing hormone (LH) and ibuprofen plasma levels were positively correlated, and the testosterone/LH ratio decreased. Fuck that. I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though

Ordinarily, you should not try to suppress fevers. Fevers are beneficial and in fact, body's defense mechanism [1]. [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/fever...

Unless of course you don't care about the secondary issues that fevers can cause

Strong fevers should be controlled usually

Also don't forget about patient comfort (if it gets too high it feels awful)

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#129

Post by raverbashing » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 10:03 AM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #115

babuskov wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote you, but you seem to lack experience/knowledge on the topic if you think it's only a painkiller. Ibuprofen's main use is to help to keep the body temperature in check. When your body temperature goes too high you can lose consciousness and even die. I had a very high fever once and didn't want to take any medicine until I started to lose consciousness and I almost fell while waiting in a line in pha…

>Fever is the reason people died so much before discovery of antibiotics. I thought bacterial infections were the response were the reason people died before antibiotics. Fever is the body's response to infection, a primitive means of fighting it. If somebody has a serious infection and you give them anti-fever medication but no antibiotics, they're still at serious risk of death even if their fever goes away. Accord…

An NSAID failing to help with a bacterial infection is not surprising

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#130

Post by logicchains » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 10:04 AM UTC

stolsvik wrote: post #125

logicchains wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though You don't have to give them anything. Ibuprofen doesn't make the underlying infection causing the fever go away any quicker, it just alleviates the symptoms. It's a trade off between reducing short-term suffering and risking long-term defects. Personally my parents never gave me painkillers for fever and I'm grateful for it: fever pain is just a tempor…

These kind of sentiments really scare and provokes me. Telling anyone that they shouldn't alleviate kids fever and/or pain is absolutely revolting to me.

I didn't say that, I said it's a trade-off. Taking them reduces pain and the risk of certain complications, but increases the risk of other complications (side effects). According to https://www.consumerreports.org/prescription-drugs/too-many-..., "The amount of harm stemming from inappropriate prescription medication is staggering. Almost 1.3 million people went to U.S. emergency rooms due to adverse drug effects in 2014, and about 124,000 died from those events." So even if a medicine is side effect free when used as prescribed, there are still risks if it's accidentally misused, and painkillers are not side-effect free even when used as prescribed.

Thought effect: if you had the option to eliminate a kid's pain with an 0.01% chance of causing a lasting defect, would you do it? Not everybody would; different people have different time preferences.