Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers • Hacker News Board

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#111

Post by selimthegrim » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #84

hatenberg wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This mindset and the ideological blinders it introduces is a huge problem. When china went aggressive on the virus people looked at it as draconian measures because of the ideological lens, not looking further to see the measures were absolutely necessary by scientific fact. When Singapore started to spring into action, the western press was musing about election posturing all the while nobody prepared. Ideology kill…

> When china went aggressive on the virus people looked at it as draconian measures because of the ideological lens, not looking further to see the measures were absolutely necessary by scientific fact. None of this would have been necessary if the doctors reporting the Wuhan virus weren’t killed for presenting bad news. There’s clear evidence that the Chinese waited far too long to start acting and alerting others.…

Who killed what doctors in Wuhan

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#112

Post by fspeech » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

octbash wrote: post #107

fspeech wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need universal mask wearing AND unlimited testing. South Korea showed it works. In Japan, even without widespread testing the spreading is still slower than the west. It's true Singapore does not mandate mask use, but they have thorough contact tracing and draconian quarantine laws.

Excuse me - what "draconian quarantine laws"?

You could lose your residency right for violating quarantine.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid19-coron...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/asian-countries-wield-fines-jai...

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#113

Post by snobol » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

chmod775 wrote: post #46

konamicode wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They just need to be put into boiling water for a few minutes to kill sars-cov-2 at 100%. I was looking for information on (high) heat killing viruses such as sars-cov-2. Are you able to point to a reliable source on this?

> I was looking for information on (high) killing viruses They're not really alive, so they can't be killed. But you can destroy vital parts of them and make them unable to reproduce. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturation_%28biochemistry%2...

Debating the classification of life, while otherwise interesting, should not derail a conversation about practical steps to fight an ongoing pandemic.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#114

Post by Der_Einzige » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #10

ZhuanXia wrote: post #7

The shameful lies about masks not working for civilians will kill thousands. Evidence based medicine (over the modern Bayesian Science-based medicine) has paralyzed our health officials from making common sense calls off priors. Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective. The official response should be to make some form of improvised mask required when out of home, and ration regular mask for health care worke…

How widespread is widespread? Japan, South Korea, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan… these are countries in which people wear masks in large numbers on a normal day. They all still have an R0 above 1.

Uhh, show me evidence that China's official numbers and South Korea have r0 above 1 please. It looks like it's finally under 1 right now...

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#115

Post by Der_Einzige » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #38

ZhuanXia wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen the progress in China since the late 1990s. A rate of change impossible for a modern westerner to believe. China is not a photograph but a video on fast-forward.

people were saying this about the USSR in the 1930s (see beyond the urals by john scott). it's always faster to catch up than to break new ground. their rate of progress will slow dramatically as they approach the state of the art.

Not with over 1 billion people and the western world on its knees. If anything, their going to progress far faster than anyone else once this is over.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#116

Post by Der_Einzige » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

shademaan wrote: post #58

ZhuanXia wrote: post #15

China has half the world’s manufacturing ability, a civil service selected strongly for cognitive ability, a much more diligent and capable people, and a large population. Not to mention experience in pandemics of this type. China will become zeroth world shortly. We will have to get used to them surpassing us.

There is no evidence the average Chinese person is "much more capable" than the average American. And the Chinese were evidently not "diligent" enough to shut down wet markets despite years of repeated warnings from epidemiologists, nor were these civil servants forthright enough about what was happening fast enough to prevent spreading this illness to other countries. Stereotypes in either direction are dangerous, u…

Chinese Americans objectively have better SAT and ACT scores (so much so that they get screwed by affirmative action policies)

Maybe Chinese themselves aren't "more capable" but the Chinese elite who can get to America and likely the Chinese elite who stay in China are certainly "more capable"

They have a collectivist culture with "tiger parents" who force kids to study far harder than the average throughout the non Asian world. Sometimes, stereotypes are simply true.

The only reason the civil servants do dumb stuff like you describe is the CCP. If you removed literal communism and the orwellian society, they will beat us long term. Imagine that the government of Taiwan ran modern China. It would be unstoppable...

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#117

Post by christkv » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #102

christkv wrote: post #67

A couple of weeks ago there was some news about salt treated masks deactivating virus. I just found this site that claims to make them https://vkmask.com/ anyone know anything about them? Are they real or a scam.

"fermented sea salt" Might be effective in some way but there's a heavy dose of wackadoo there. US patent 88,819,662 doesn't seem to exist either.

I think they are trying to pretend they are doing this https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39956

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#118

Post by octbash » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:10 PM UTC

fspeech wrote: post #112

octbash wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me - what "draconian quarantine laws"?

You could lose your residency right for violating quarantine. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid19-coron... https://www.wsj.com/articles/asian-countries-wield-fines-jai...

How is that draconian? If you're issued a stay-home notice, STAY AT HOME.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#119

Post by lioeters » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:11 PM UTC

staticautomatic wrote: post #74

konamicode wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They just need to be put into boiling water for a few minutes to kill sars-cov-2 at 100%. I was looking for information on (high) heat killing viruses such as sars-cov-2. Are you able to point to a reliable source on this?

Are you aware of any viruses not killed by high heat?

According to an article on Quora, "At What Temperature Do Viruses Die?" ¹, for what it's worth:

> All [known] strains of virus can be inactivated at 70 °C.

For reference, an autoclave used for sterilization is around 121 °C.

> A minimum temperature range to inactivate most virus is 48°C to 60°C. Some virus still able to survive at temperature below 60°C e.g. adenoviruses(dsDNA naked virus) relatively thermostable, it able to withstand temperature at 56°C for 10min.

¹ https://www.quora.com/At-what-temperature-do-viruses-die-1

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#120

Post by fspeech » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:15 PM UTC

octbash wrote: post #118

fspeech wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could lose your residency right for violating quarantine. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid19-coron... https://www.wsj.com/articles/asian-countries-wield-fines-jai...

How is that draconian? If you're issued a stay-home notice, STAY AT HOME.

"Draconian" as in I don't see it practicable in my country. Not a moral judgment.