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Achievement Porn

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Re: Achievement Porn

#111

Post by andymism »

CoryOndrejka wrote: post #13

"Any achievement in a video game is a fake achievement" This is a great soundbite to build an essay around but ignores two decades of learning, cognitive, and psychological research. There are too many examples to try to pack into a comments, but among the most obvious: - 3D games are have been demonstrated to have positive effects on spatial perception and to allow rehearsal-based training for real-world activities…

The real problem isn't that the line ignores cognitive research, it's that the rest of the essay is built around a statement that is on fundamentally shaky logical ground. See fallacy of equivocation. The OP intentionally misinterpreted 'achievement' in the context of video games (simple trophies or indicators that you're playing a game in the intended way) and applied the abstract, idealized meaning of achievement instead.

While I more or less agree with the intent of his essay, writing that's based bad analogies and fallacious statements just end up sounding like fluff.

Re: Achievement Porn

#112

Post by gridspy »

Retric wrote: post #100
gridspy wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your skills are real, your achievement is meaningless. I am an awesome Natural Selection (the FPS RTS) commander. I have lead epic campaigns back and forth across the game map against huge odds. When I played, my team often told me that I was doing a great job. Then, I won. The game went "well done" and all that hard work turned into nothing. Sure, I had skill, but I had achieved nothing but entertainment and wasted…

After the heat death of the universe everything done by anything becomes meaningless. Your actions increased the happiness of other people for some period of time, abstractly that's about all you can do. Granted creating a fun video game or a more effective solar cell are on a larger scale, but it's still the same basic thing.

True. However some achievements will last after I am dead, some will not. I'm more interested in the former.

Re: Achievement Porn

#113

Post by gcheong »

pringle wrote: post #46
sgoranson wrote: post #19

Trying to define what should be meaningful for other people is pretty arrogant and an insular perspective on life. My personal take on reality is that the whole shebang is a "meaningless treadmill", but I'm willing to accept that it might not be true for the next guy.

I don't get the upvotes for this comment. Most of the philosophers we revere did exactly this -- define and put forth universal ideas for what is meaningful in life. No one is forcing these ideas on you, and it's easy to take shots at the "man in the arena" who steps forward to tackle a subject. I found it pretty interesting, as I had never thought much about the impact of this new class of "achievement" modern socie…

"...and that he doesn't have designs to become a dictator and make this opinion the law of the land."

Yeah, I think he wants to be the next Tony Robbins:

"My mission is to inspire people to think clearly, to live deliberately, to conquer fear and embrace possibility, to express beauty, and to love completely. Prepare to be scorched then reborn, authentic and complete."

Re: Achievement Porn

#114

Post by Psyonic »

billswift wrote: post #103
Psyonic wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. You could say that. That said, I'm sure that feels a little ridiculous to you. That money can be a treadmill, though, is as old as time. Haven't you seen A Christmas Carol? Scrooge and Marley made money like bandits.

You do know A Christmas Carol is fiction , right? That Scrooge and Marley don't really exist?

You don't say. And here I was thinking that fiction could be instructive...

Re: Achievement Porn

#115

Post by tptacek »

elptacek wrote: post #104
nopassrecover wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Games are typically spatial based (shooters mostly) or strategic based and for whatever reason (genetic or cultural) boys are more interested in these topics than girls. Girls have been shown to be more interested in reality based games (playing house etc.) which is why games like The Sims are such a hit. Constrastly boys look for an escape/imaginative games which sums up most games and is why your son plays more gam…

In general, I agree with you. As applied to our kids, specifically, it doesn't ring true. They are both excited by the same games: Spore, Club Penguin, Rock Band, Zelda, Pokemon. Some of which seem like 'playing house' (Club Penguin) and others 'escape/imaginative.' In their non-computer time, they play a game they've invented called "Creatures." I'm not sure what this game entails (it appears to have no real rules),…

I've downmodded you for complaining about my housekeeping habits.

Re: Achievement Porn

#116

Post by Aron »

1) People are driven to accumulate achievements. 2) People are a bit confused about which ones lead to their long term happiness and prosperity, and which don't. 3) Owners of a service can increase the stickiness of their service by embedding an achievement system. 4) Are the service owner's goals aligned with yours? Partially, but not in a deep sense.

It all highlights the need for improvements in our psychological defense kit needed for modern society, along with for example, general awareness of how marketing functions to manipulate us (another thing with good and bad).

Re: Achievement Porn

#117

Post by nailer »

DLWormwood wrote: post #96
gridspy wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about : Any achievement the game rewards you for is a fake achievement. Whenever I go up a level in WoW, or gain a kill in Quake, or beat a boss and pick up his loot I have a fake achievement. Sure, there are some real achievements in there, but they are not provided by the game world - they are almost a side effect. Most likely they are not the reason that people are playing these games, but they are a useful ex…

> Consider how much real achievement we would see if all the motivated hackers put down WoW and started up their development environment of choice. This is a big part of why I quit WoW late last year. I wanted to take one last stab at self-employment before turning 40. (Yes, yet another wannabe iP* developer) While having a day job and playing WoW prior to the achievement system wasn't a problem for me, having to be…

Off topic, but what is 'iP*' ?

Re: Achievement Porn

#118

Post by sireat »

nailer wrote: post #117
DLWormwood wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Consider how much real achievement we would see if all the motivated hackers put down WoW and started up their development environment of choice. This is a big part of why I quit WoW late last year. I wanted to take one last stab at self-employment before turning 40. (Yes, yet another wannabe iP* developer) While having a day job and playing WoW prior to the achievement system wasn't a problem for me, having to be…

Off topic, but what is 'iP*' ?

I would hazard a guess that it is: iPhone, iPad, etc

Re: Achievement Porn

#119

Post by eru »

gridspy wrote: post #112
Retric wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the heat death of the universe everything done by anything becomes meaningless. Your actions increased the happiness of other people for some period of time, abstractly that's about all you can do. Granted creating a fun video game or a more effective solar cell are on a larger scale, but it's still the same basic thing.

True. However some achievements will last after I am dead, some will not. I'm more interested in the former.

If you die sooner your achievements won't have to last for so long to qualify. (Though that's probably not what you want.)

I guess your best stab at achieving immortality in your works is mathematics.

Re: Achievement Porn

#120

Post by gridspy »

TheTarquin wrote: post #109
gridspy wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about : Any achievement the game rewards you for is a fake achievement. Whenever I go up a level in WoW, or gain a kill in Quake, or beat a boss and pick up his loot I have a fake achievement. Sure, there are some real achievements in there, but they are not provided by the game world - they are almost a side effect. Most likely they are not the reason that people are playing these games, but they are a useful ex…

Consider how much real achievement we would see if all the motivated hackers put down WoW and started up their development environment of choice. But there's a lot of truth to the fact that human beings need recreation. We need down-time when we're not building, making, doing, etc. There's a lot of engineers who, if they put down WoW and fired up Eclipse would just stare at the screen for hours wondering what to buil…

That is true. However, you need to choose recreational activities carefully - hopefully ones that will further your goals. Also, choose activities that are non-addictive (and recognise the addictive elements in those you do choose) so you can remove them from your life when they are no longer useful.

I know that WoW is fun, or EVE online more so (for me) but I stay well clear because I know that way lies madness.

HN, Twitter and even Google Analytics are relaxing for me, and all borderline addictive. They also have benefits to my business.

Just make concious choices about how you relax and then you are on a good path.

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