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Achievement Porn

petermichaud.com

11–20 of 122 posts

Re: Achievement Porn

#11
post #10

This gem is from the posters resume page: So this guy dies and goes to Heaven, and when he gets to Heaven, he’s trying to explain to God how he spent his life. Wait, wait, God says. Let me get this straight I gave you a body able to swim oceans and climb mountains Yeah, the guys says. and you sat in a cubicle? Right. I gave you creativity, and you made widgets? Yes, the guy says. The one thing I withheld from you, th…

Yeah this guy seems so full of it. Why is climbing a mountain not a fake achievement?

Re: Achievement Porn

#12
Who decides what's useful and not? Perhaps the future will adapt to exploit the skills of gamers and those who never pursued these "fake" achievements will be useless. I'm not a gamer, but I could think of a number of ways how to make humans solve relevant tasks through games.

Re: Achievement Porn

#13
"Any achievement in a video game is a fake achievement"

This is a great soundbite to build an essay around but ignores two decades of learning, cognitive, and psychological research. There are too many examples to try to pack into a comments, but among the most obvious:

- 3D games are have been demonstrated to have positive effects on spatial perception and to allow rehearsal-based training for real-world activities (http://www.dcs.shef.ac.uk/~daniela/SeriousGames4thePolice_Ah...)

- Medical education in virtual worlds has also demonstrated the efficacy of training in synthetic worlds (http://www.jmir.org/2010/1/e1/)

- Massively multiplayer games' positive impact on literacy (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.114...)

Easy to go on and on, but the short answer is that it is preposterous to dismiss technologically mediated achievement as somehow fake.

The author's other points about variable-reward based training and the lure of positive feedback are also well researched fields. Since Skinner we've seen evidence that small amounts of positive reinforcement with some randomness -- called variable reinforcement -- generates the largest behavioral changes and longest engagement, so it should come as no surprise that achievement games -- like gambling -- engage a large number of people.

Of course, the 30,000' view of the article -- that variable reward games can consume a large amount of time and may not be making the player's life better -- is true. However, the simple assertions that games are fake and hurt their players are simply not supported by the data. For a very deep analysis of MMO players, you may want to peruse Dmitri William's work on the EQ2 data: http://dmitriwilliams.com/research.html

Re: Achievement Porn

#14
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain what you mean by "real achievement". At a minimum, I would think that it must include making people's lives better, directly or indirectly. By that metric, solving a puzzle - e.g. sudoko - is fake, as the puzzle could be solved much more efficiently e.g. by a computer program, and the human effort put into solving it could be much more productive - and "real" - elsewhere.

That's a good question. Does building muscle mass by lifting weights count as a real achievment? Being fit makes that person's life better (and possibly others, since wellness travels along social networks). Repeated problem solving is cognitive exercise, so perhaps it can also be "real". The trick would be to be honest about the benefits of said exercise. Imagine someone who only worked their biceps, but deluded the…

I make a distinction between exercise and work. The things you do repeatedly, all else being equal, are the things you get better at. Do actual physical labour, and you'll get stronger; do fake physical labour in a gym, and you'll also get stronger. But modern life doesn't need much in the way of actual physical labour. FWIW, I've never been in a gym in my life, and view the religion of the church of the gym with some bemusement, but I'm not particularly unfit - right in the middle of normal BMI, and I enjoy cycling as a means of commuting, rather than exercise.

Mental work, on the other hand, there is an abundance of. There's no end of things a motivated person can put their mind to and affect real people positively. Cognitive exercise is at best a cultural experience - such as games - or mental chewing gum for those waiting periods, but as we grow more connected with gadgets etc., there are fewer excuses to waste effort with no substance.

Re: Achievement Porn

#15
post #7

That's why I literally love capitalism. The market does not give a heck about your little silly titles. You might be a God of the Universe, but if you cannot bring a profit, you're out.

And the corollary: you may be a master of the universe, and bring in lots of profit, yet not actually add substantial value.

As the article says, moneymaking is its own treadmill, its own fake achievement.

Re: Achievement Porn

#16
post #11
post #10

This gem is from the posters resume page: So this guy dies and goes to Heaven, and when he gets to Heaven, he’s trying to explain to God how he spent his life. Wait, wait, God says. Let me get this straight I gave you a body able to swim oceans and climb mountains Yeah, the guys says. and you sat in a cubicle? Right. I gave you creativity, and you made widgets? Yes, the guy says. The one thing I withheld from you, th…

Yeah this guy seems so full of it. Why is climbing a mountain not a fake achievement?

Agreed, climbing a mountain serves no purpose other than to say you've climbed a mountain. I climbed aboard a plane and got much higher than any mountain climber did on land, and I did it at a far more economical price.

If you believe sitting in a cubicle is meaningless, then don't sit in a fucking cubicle, it's common sense. I can't stand office work, it's just something I cannot do because it feels like a laborious chore, rather I choose to work outside in construction because despite working the same hours as anyone else, it doesn't feel like I'm forcing myself to do it. However, I'm certain lots of people don't enjoy moving equipment that weighs hundreds of pounds, so to each their own.

In my life I work my job so that I can afford a nice home to live with my wife, to spend time with family, to travel to foreign cultures and to take care of animals. This is what I like, and this is what I do. My life fulfils me, that's why I live it this way, if someone ignorantly wants to believe that my actions are not real achievements then so be it. Obviously their grand achievement in life will be of wasting time caring about what other people are thinking and doing.

Re: Achievement Porn

#17
post #12

Who decides what's useful and not? Perhaps the future will adapt to exploit the skills of gamers and those who never pursued these "fake" achievements will be useless. I'm not a gamer, but I could think of a number of ways how to make humans solve relevant tasks through games.

You do. The author is calling on you to asses what you choose to achieve.

Re: Achievement Porn

#18
Seneca wrote about this in _De Brevitate Vitae_ about 2,000 years ago, and unlike TFA, actually said it well.

Those who do not study philosophy are condemned to blog mangled versions of it.

Re: Achievement Porn

#19
Trying to define what should be meaningful for other people is pretty arrogant and an insular perspective on life.

My personal take on reality is that the whole shebang is a "meaningless treadmill", but I'm willing to accept that it might not be true for the next guy.

Re: Achievement Porn

#20
post #12

Who decides what's useful and not? Perhaps the future will adapt to exploit the skills of gamers and those who never pursued these "fake" achievements will be useless. I'm not a gamer, but I could think of a number of ways how to make humans solve relevant tasks through games.

You do. The author is calling on you to asses what you choose to achieve.

Normally spelling corrections are somewhere around Argument Level -1, but I just wanted to point out that when you wrote: "The author is calling on you to asses what you choose to achieve." I read it at a glance as The author is calling on you asses to choose what you want to achieve. A moment later I understood you meant assess, and while the two statements mean much the same thing, the one I misread is far more memorable :-)
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