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Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

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Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#101

Post by a-priori »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #72
gk1 wrote: post #17

See what happened in Ukraine's neighboring country, Moldova, 24 years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Transnistria Moldova had a population of ethnic Russians that lived on the Eastern bank of the river D'niest'r. (Similar to the Crimean region in Ukraine.) Eventually a civil war broke out, and Russia stepped in to back the ethnically Russian region (sound familiar?). The end result was a stalemate. A ceasef…

> different language (Russian, not Moldovan) The official language of the Republic of Moldova is Romanian[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Moldova

Yes, but many people in Moldova call the language they speak 'Moldovan', even if it's only subtly different from Romanian.

When given the option in a 2004 census, 60% of the population chose 'Moldovan' as their native language, compared to 16.5% who chose 'Romanian'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#102

Post by biesnecker »

hepek wrote: post #54
kievins wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happened in Georgia in 2008. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)#The_South_Oss...

Same thing happened in Serbia in 1999. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo Only in this case it was NATO who invaded, and it is viewed quite differently from the western media then what parents have cited. The worst thing in world today is to become the rope on which the imperial forces tug to prove their strength.

> The worst thing in world today is to become the rope on which the imperial forces tug to prove their strength.

Not just today -- it's been a shitty position to find oneself in since the beginning of time. The only difference today is that we think of ourselves as above such things. But clearly we're not.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#103

Post by danmaz74 »

aquadrop wrote: post #97

I hope that was just a political move in response to harsh words from the USA and no real sending troops will follow. Because that is very stupid thing to do for Russia. It makes me sick that nobody in the parliament voted against. And even though western media was using propaganda heavily as well as russian's did, there's no need to bend the truth with that kind of stupid move. It will only make the conflict bigger…

Apparently, troops are already there though.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#106

Post by wismer »

hepek wrote: post #54
kievins wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happened in Georgia in 2008. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)#The_South_Oss...

Same thing happened in Serbia in 1999. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo Only in this case it was NATO who invaded, and it is viewed quite differently from the western media then what parents have cited. The worst thing in world today is to become the rope on which the imperial forces tug to prove their strength.

I think the circumstances surrounding the conflict in Kosovo paint a starkly different picture from what's going on in Ukraine.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#107

Post by firstOrder »

lmg643 wrote: post #75

From what I gather, Obama has some of the same foreign policy advisors as Bush did. We are pursuing some backdoor strategy to get Ukraine to join the EU. The democratically elected president chose to ally with Russia instead, because Russia offered them more. We set up riots over there, and he flees the capital. The leader is declared to be deposed, and now a leader friendly to the west can take over. Russia can't st…

> We set up riots there Just looking at pictures of what was going on in Kiev, it was fairly obvious. Nothing is going on and suddenly thousands of people are bussed into Kiev. Large video screens are set up and professional placards are distributed. Of course the always tell-tale English language signs of the "we want freedom" type. It does not generate an effect of the type desired so they up the amount of violence with burning cars, Molotov cocktails, and then bring out the guns.

Then they finally get some control and immediately begin a harsh crackdown on the eastern portion of the country, the massive existing Russian military bases that are within land which was Russian until 1954, and officially autonomous from 1992 on etc.

Ukraine isn't the only country being pushed into the EU, while Spain and Greece stagnate economically, they have the same kind of neo-nazis that have been marching through Kiev come to the fore. Croatia just got pushed into the EU a few months ago, despite opposition, economic stagnation etc.

That Americans and some western Europeans are taking advantage of the situation is of their nature. What is laughable is watching their stage-managed show of neo-nazis and well-financed by outsiders demonstrations and hearing nonsensical moralistic bombast about freedom, how awful Russia is to protect its ceded territory with its military bases etc.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#108

Post by lmg643 »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #80
lmg643 wrote: post #75

From what I gather, Obama has some of the same foreign policy advisors as Bush did. We are pursuing some backdoor strategy to get Ukraine to join the EU. The democratically elected president chose to ally with Russia instead, because Russia offered them more. We set up riots over there, and he flees the capital. The leader is declared to be deposed, and now a leader friendly to the west can take over. Russia can't st…

Citation needed. Name those advisors. Every country in teh world recognizes Crimea as being Ukraine. Russia has just announced its invading that.

Victoria Nuland, the woman who was caught on the leaked tape saying "F*ck the EU", essentially because the EU was not quite as enthusiastic about supporting further action, was the principal deputy foreign policy adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland

Obama has a lot of stuff he has to deal with on a daily basis - listening to the audio, it would make sense that she is calling the shots on a daily basis. you can hear her saying that she is going to arrange biden to give an "attaboy" which is basically "i need a guy in a leadership role to appear to bless this" not that biden is actually making any substantive decisions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL_GShyGv3o

Her brother-in-law came up with Bush's "surge" strategy in 2007, her husband was a foreign policy advisor to mccain in 2008. i would guess that's not the full extent of their republican advisory work but that's all i found in a minute or two on wikipedia.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#109

Post by vonmoltke »

voidlogic wrote: post #69
vonmoltke wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And nothing in the Budapest Memorandum requires or even permits a signatory to defend Ukraine against another signatory or anyone else. Obviously the Ukrainian government would ask for help in such a case, but there is no current treaty obligation to provide it. Complicating this is that Russia claims Yanukovich is still the legitimate leader of Ukraine and that their actions thus far have his blessing, meaning their…

Thats not was a prominent British diplomat says: Sir Anthony Brenton (UK Ambassador to Russia 04-08): "If indeed this is a Russian invasion of Crimea and if we do conclude the [Budapest] Memorandum is legally binding then it’s very difficult to avoid the conclusion that we’re going to go to war with Russia."

All sides have been saying a lot of shit that is not exactly true over the past week. Here is the full text of the memorandum: http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2014/2014_1-9/2014-08/.... Nothing in there provides an obligation to defend Ukraine from a third party.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#110

Post by iaskwhy »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #80
lmg643 wrote: post #75

From what I gather, Obama has some of the same foreign policy advisors as Bush did. We are pursuing some backdoor strategy to get Ukraine to join the EU. The democratically elected president chose to ally with Russia instead, because Russia offered them more. We set up riots over there, and he flees the capital. The leader is declared to be deposed, and now a leader friendly to the west can take over. Russia can't st…

Citation needed. Name those advisors. Every country in teh world recognizes Crimea as being Ukraine. Russia has just announced its invading that.

It might be worth noting that Crimea is actually the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. They have their own government, etc. They are still under the Ukraine umbrella, sure.
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