Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

hosted.ap.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 255 posts

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#61

Post by restlessmike »

gk1 wrote: post #30
danmaz74 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Ukraine attack Russia in any way? No. Is Ukraine a sovereign Country? Yes. Is Russia sending troops to Ukraine? Yes. This is an invasion. Isn't an invasion an aggression? If not, what is?

You're oversimplifying the situation. Yes, Ukraine is a sovereign country. But half of it is ethnically Russian, and identify themselves a such. The Ukrainian border--like many geopolitical borders--is arbitrary and does not signify a single united nation. I'm not saying one side is right and the other is wrong. I'm just highlighting the fact that's it's not as simple as you make it out to be.

Just wanted to point out that Ukraine is not half ethnically Russian; large parts of the country speak the Russian language but only 17% are ethnically Russian. Even these ethnic Russians are still Ukrainian citizens, making any claim by Russia to be "protecting" them rather dubious.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#62

Post by firstOrder »

ck2 wrote: post #24

The scariest part of all of this is the 6000 mystery troops that showed up without any logos on their uniforms or carriers or tanks. They took over the border, airport, etc. without any identification, simply guns to insist "do as we say". They even blocked the coast guard from leaving their ports. Which means they had this kind of force all prepared. Can you imagine if US troops showed up somewhere in huge numbers w…

You mean like the thousands of mystery troops that showed up without any logos in Kiev, took over government buildings, the airport, etc. without any identification, simply guns to insist "do as we say"?

Which means they had this kind of force all prepared.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#63

Post by kzrdude »

gk1 wrote: post #17

See what happened in Ukraine's neighboring country, Moldova, 24 years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Transnistria Moldova had a population of ethnic Russians that lived on the Eastern bank of the river D'niest'r. (Similar to the Crimean region in Ukraine.) Eventually a civil war broke out, and Russia stepped in to back the ethnically Russian region (sound familiar?). The end result was a stalemate. A ceasef…

Do they still hear artillery shots there in daily life?

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#64

Post by iaskwhy »

kievins wrote: post #33
gk1 wrote: post #17

See what happened in Ukraine's neighboring country, Moldova, 24 years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Transnistria Moldova had a population of ethnic Russians that lived on the Eastern bank of the river D'niest'r. (Similar to the Crimean region in Ukraine.) Eventually a civil war broke out, and Russia stepped in to back the ethnically Russian region (sound familiar?). The end result was a stalemate. A ceasef…

Same thing happened in Georgia in 2008. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)#The_South_Oss...

I wouldn't say it's the same as the number of Russians living in South Ossetia was and is really small (2 to 3%?). There are some similarities but even the way the war started seems different from what's happening in Ukraine. But it's useful context to have though.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#66

Post by gk1 »

kzrdude wrote: post #63
gk1 wrote: post #17

See what happened in Ukraine's neighboring country, Moldova, 24 years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Transnistria Moldova had a population of ethnic Russians that lived on the Eastern bank of the river D'niest'r. (Similar to the Crimean region in Ukraine.) Eventually a civil war broke out, and Russia stepped in to back the ethnically Russian region (sound familiar?). The end result was a stalemate. A ceasef…

Do they still hear artillery shots there in daily life?

Not anymore. The ceasefire has held reasonably well. The "border" between Transnistria and the rest of Moldova has a demilitarized zone, protected by (drumroll please...) Russian "peace" troops.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#68

Post by davidw »

iaskwhy wrote: post #50
ck2 wrote: post #24

The scariest part of all of this is the 6000 mystery troops that showed up without any logos on their uniforms or carriers or tanks. They took over the border, airport, etc. without any identification, simply guns to insist "do as we say". They even blocked the coast guard from leaving their ports. Which means they had this kind of force all prepared. Can you imagine if US troops showed up somewhere in huge numbers w…

I would avoid this "can you imagine if US" thing. US has done all sorts of things, maybe even that one, I don't know. Most of the time, US has done so without any repercussion. Let's hope things go for the best this time in Ukraine, as Candide would say.

> I would avoid this "can you imagine if US" thing

That, unfortunately, is simply not possible. "For each and every internet discussion of a political event somewhere in the world, someone will attempt to drag the US into it, and probably point out how the US is actually worse than the situation being discussed".

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#69

Post by voidlogic »

vonmoltke wrote: post #46
adamlj wrote: post #8

This could turn ugly really fast. If Russia attacks Ukraine the US and Britain would have to protect the borders of Ukraine, according to a treaty signed in 1994 [0]. If the US don't follow the treaty I guess we will know how much these treatys really are worth. [0] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570335/Former-Briti...

And nothing in the Budapest Memorandum requires or even permits a signatory to defend Ukraine against another signatory or anyone else. Obviously the Ukrainian government would ask for help in such a case, but there is no current treaty obligation to provide it. Complicating this is that Russia claims Yanukovich is still the legitimate leader of Ukraine and that their actions thus far have his blessing, meaning their…

Thats not was a prominent British diplomat says:

Sir Anthony Brenton (UK Ambassador to Russia 04-08): "If indeed this is a Russian invasion of Crimea and if we do conclude the [Budapest] Memorandum is legally binding then it’s very difficult to avoid the conclusion that we’re going to go to war with Russia."

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#70

Post by glogla »

raldi wrote: post #56
davidw wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am glad this has finally got to the top of HN Because once HN is aware of it, we'll... uhm... Send Putin some nasty Perl scripts? This, like almost all political / breaking news stories, is probably off topic for this site, given the guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Video…

People said the same thing on Slashdot after 9/11, and they were wrong then, too. Once-a-generation events, with major impacts that last for decades across an entire region of the world, transcend "news for nerds" guidelines.

Well, this is really not once per generation. They did this with Georgia and Moldavia already. And more are to follow.
Post reply on HN