Looking through some of those detainee pictures, it is almost all men, and some older women. Gruesome implication. But I only looked through some.
The Xinjiang Police Files
101–110 of 338 posts
Re: The Xinjiang Police Files
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_St... , https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_the_United_States , I’m sure there’s more on Wikipedia alone.
Ugh, the question is about systemic torture. Your counterpoints are not. As terrible as the condition in US prisons can be, those prisoners are convicted. The only crimes the millions of Uyghurs committed are being of a certain race and practicing a certain religion. Your profile says, “Hates when people get killed, especially for religion and oil”, yet you seem to be completely contradictory in that regards througho…
My counterpoint is about demonstrating that while the sources document mass detention, they don’t show that the cases of other abuse are systemic - to me it seems they are not mandated by the system, rather, they are individual crimes committed by the guards, and the US prison system is an example of how this problem also exists elsewhere and might be unavoidable at this scale.
>The only crimes the millions of Uyghurs committed are being of a certain race and practicing a certain religion.
And the vast majority of them are fine. It’s not like Iraquis killed by US troops simply for “being a certain race and practicing a certain religion”.
Re: The Xinjiang Police Files
#103Quoted post unavailable.
Could you explain his controversy (I wasn't able to find anything on a quick Google search)?
Apparently a lot of people are suddenly experts on this guy Zenz. There appears to be sort of campaign going on in various places (like here on HN) to throw dirt at him.
Re: The Xinjiang Police Files
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you point me to the documents describing systemic (EDIT: Systemic, as opposed to a crime committed by a rogue prison guard) torture in those “camps”? Guantanamo is indeed different, because it was only used for people to extract information from - vast majority of “war against terrorism” victims have been simply killed instead.
>systemic (EDIT: Systemic, as opposed to a crime committed by a rogue prison guard) torture having systemically rogue prison guards (say because they never really get punished and everybody aware about it, and frequently even with tacit approval) is a form of systemic torture. Have been this way in USSR/Russia for example.
Of course. But the sources don’t show this to be the case, it’s just an assumption.
Re: The Xinjiang Police Files
#105I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region, which would seem far worse than some person drawing a cartoon. But maybe…
That’s why, as a westerner, I consider the Uyghur issue not to be ‘our’ problem. It’s terrible what’s happening there, but there are more than 2 billion muslims in the world who can do something about it.
“…who can do something about it.”
What can they do, specifically?
Re: The Xinjiang Police Files
#106As we saw after the invasion of Ukraine, the West can mount a swift, concerted and effective response, that deals a lot of damage to the offending country's economy. I'm sure that evidence of Xinjiang crimes will invoke the same kind of decisive action.
Re: The Xinjiang Police Files
#107I hope that this is a genuine leak showing what's going on there. Just don't like the organisation behind this leak, at all, and don't really trust them. But as long as this leak is objective I can ignore this aspect. Really sickening to see what's going on in Xinjiang. EDIT: I said it's sickening to see what's going on and i strongly oppose what China is doing in Xinjang, am I really getting downvotes just because I…
I suppose it would be helpful if you provided some grounds on why you do not trust this foundation. There are other messages in this discussion showing distrust in the foundation and Dr. Zenz, but none provide background for that.
I know that I am part of a minority when saying this, and to give some context, I live in a Social Democracy and do like it as it is.
Now, why I don't like this foundation. First off, every bad thing happening in communist countries seems to be attributed to the concept of communism itself, and not to the fact that these countries are ruled by dictators. They also state "we tell the truth about communism because our vision is for a world free from the false hope of communism"
If shit happens in our capitalist countries, this rarely gets blamed on capitalism as a whole, and even if, it's not taken seriously by many. I've never seen someone blame capitalism for what happened at Guantanamo Bay, as an example.
"a world free from [...] communism". It seems like this foundation is part of a majority who doesn't actually educate themselves about communism. As someone who has read what Marx, Engels any many others came up with, I can just shake my head if I read what is written on this foundations website. The big issue with communism is that dictators use this system to enrich themselves, BUT, communism should be a system where the proletariat rules, not a single person.
If anyone would create a "Victims of Capitalism Memorial Foundation", the west would instantly laugh it off and deny such criticism. But as we have seemed to conclude that commies are the bad guys, everyone is fine with people blaming absolutely everything on Communism.
And now to end, no, I am not communist. I live in one of the richest, capitalist countries, in a social democracy. I just don't like it when Communism is being blamed in such weird ways and it especially pisses me off if such things come from the US - a country where news talking heads frequently trash Socialism/Communism as a boogeyman, even if it makes zero sense. Add to that the atrocities that the US has caused in our world (Y'all also do tons of cool stuff, I'm not Anti-US, just objectively critical), atrocities which rarely get blamed on the whole country and instead on groups or even specific people, and I can't take such generalized criticism against whole systems seriously.
China does evil shit all the time as well. Surveillance, the stuff in Xinjang and more, just to also make clear that I am not a chinese puppet. But keep the criticism real.
This comment also gives more concrete criticism: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31489695
Re: The Xinjiang Police Files
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is not a far cry, it is in fact almost exactly the same situation, although to my knowledge the crimes of Israel are much more well documented by many sources. Also note that it has taken almost a decade to get to this level of awareness and still to this day Israel critics are called anti-semites and worse. Hopefully more widespread awareness and outrage about the treatment of Muslims in Xinjiang comes soon. EDIT…
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Where are the death camps? The gas chambers? This comment has no place on HN for sheer idiocy and sensationalism.
Re: The Xinjiang Police Files
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
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The international community looks at Israel and sees Arab citizens, Arab judges including on the supreme court, the 14 current elected Arab members of the Knesset. They look at the ancient, vibrant jewish communities that have historically been well integrated across the predominantly Arab nations of the Middle East for thousands of years and... Sorry, who are the Nazis? I'm in no way trying to justify everything don…
The problem here is the gap between Israeli Arabs (citizens, full rights, political participation) and Palestinean Arabs (live in the same country, limited rights and political participation, citizens of partially recognizes quasistate).
Re: The Xinjiang Police Files
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
You bomb, torture and kill them till you get a dictatorial regime that is subservient to you?
You win a war to get a stable Chechen political regime that sort-of works and turn a warzone into a reasonably peaceful region. That seems to be a very high bar if we compare it with USA/NATO/EU/Chinese endeavours in any of Muslim regions. The grandparent made it sound like the devastation were ongoing, which it's not. Stopping the violence is a good thing. If you don't acknowledge it, you can't even tell failure fro…
Russia started war in Chechnya (first indirectly by arming opposition, then by literally starting war). Spinning it to say that they tried to win the war to turn Chechnya to peaceful region is very disingenuous.