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Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

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Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#101

Post by jfoster »

justinclift wrote: post #87
metta2uall wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, the fact that they app is unobfuscated and can thus be easily decompiled is even better than released source code since one can't be sure that the released source code truly matches the actual build in the app store (unless they also go to the effort of having 'reproducible builds' - which would be quite impressive). Also it's good to keep in perspective that the 'government' can already track people to a great…

If they're not producing reproducible builds, they're not really being serious are they?

You're seeking completely perfect solutions in a time of crisis where a "good enough" solution might save a lot of lives. Cut them some slack for trying to stem the harm of the pandemic. This situation affects every human.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#102

Post by nathan_ldrivo »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

TOTAL AGREE MIKE. WELL SAID!

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#103

Post by godelski »

mcannon wrote: post #42
bad_user wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily deny location data to games and people that are concerned about these apps will not share their location lightly. I have no app on my iPhone with the ability to use my location in the background, not even Waze or Google Maps. Also I don't care about deletion policies. That data should not be collected in the first place. I don't know about any specifics, but if the data isn't anonymized somehow, on the…

Did you know that on iOS it doesn’t even ask for location, and on Android that’s required for Bluetooth? The source code will show you what is done with that (as others who have decompiled it already have shown it doesn’t use the location anywhere). You can choose to get the virus - but that’s a pretty silly choice IMHO. And if you do, please stay home and don’t give it to anyone else.

> You can choose to get the virus - but that’s a pretty silly choice IMHO. And if you do, please stay home and don’t give it to anyone else.

I don't think this is unreasonable. Most people on HN are under 65 and thus will only get mild symptoms and likely just be out for a few days. Considering we're all probably working remotely, it is also easy to not infect others. Alternatively, a government overreach can last decades and these typically compound. This is a classic marshmallow now or two later problem.

So a few days to a week of being pretty sick vs potential government overreach? IMO it seems silly not to take the sick days (if we're assuming gov overreach).

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#104

Post by jfoster »

vorpalhex wrote: post #73
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

My recommendation is that when a non-technical person asks you a question, especially if that person is a friend, is to not lie. To tell them the app preserves their privacy without seeing the source is a lie. The truth is "I don't know". It is not normal to clean code before releasing it. That would suggest the code either has technical flaws or other deeply rooted problems that you are not comfortable releasing. Th…

Wouldn't you then be telling them the same thing for every app? How many apps & platforms have you reviewed the code for prior to providing your assessment of the risks involved?

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#106

Post by jay_kyburz »

Here is how I think the app should have worked.

Instead of requesting codes from a central government server to be distributed to people you come into contact with, your phone could have generated its own codes for distribution.

Then when a COVID infection is found, the gov could simply publish a list of all codes collected by the infected person.

Your phone could request this public list daily and you could choose to get a COVID test if your code is in the public list.

The government would have no way to link any codes to a particular phone or person. A lot less data would need to collected, stored, and managed.

This app is designed to allow the government to find and collect anybody they think needs testing. It can also be used to find and punish anybody breaking social distancing laws.

(Updated for clarity)

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#107

Post by [deleted] »

godelski wrote: post #99
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

> - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. I actually believe this is helpful. Just in any democratic setting you want different types of players. You want the "burn the system down" people, because they provide harsh critiques and don't hold back. You want the "okay, but I have reservations" people, because they will push forward but also consider what they are doing (and will…

[deleted]

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#108

Post by Fargren »

godelski wrote: post #103
mcannon wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you know that on iOS it doesn’t even ask for location, and on Android that’s required for Bluetooth? The source code will show you what is done with that (as others who have decompiled it already have shown it doesn’t use the location anywhere). You can choose to get the virus - but that’s a pretty silly choice IMHO. And if you do, please stay home and don’t give it to anyone else.

> You can choose to get the virus - but that’s a pretty silly choice IMHO. And if you do, please stay home and don’t give it to anyone else. I don't think this is unreasonable. Most people on HN are under 65 and thus will only get mild symptoms and likely just be out for a few days. Considering we're all probably working remotely, it is also easy to not infect others. Alternatively, a government overreach can last de…

> Most people on HN are under 65 and thus will only get mild symptoms and likely just be out for a few days.

This is the most likely case for people how are not vulnerable, but by no means a sure thing. Plenty of people without preexisting conditions have died or had to be hospitalized for days or weeks.

Data is a bit difficult to filter, but as an example 4.5% of deaths in NY are from the 18-44 age group[1]. Presumably a large fraction of those were not vulnerable, or not aware that they were. The fatality rate in that group is somewhere between 0.2% and 0.4%. You are not likely to die, but those are not chances to take without a second thought.

[1]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-se...

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#109

Post by lkpl »

Buckgw wrote: post #43
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

Well said

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7TnRQQ1V4k

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#110

Post by dna_polymerase »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

Australia is a member of the five eyes. Whatever their government cobbles together will be used to build out the surveillance state. So if asked, by anyone: Tell them to stay at home and never install the app or trust their government with their data. Contact tracing is their wet dream and it will enable them to roll out much more serious measures in the future.
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