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Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

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Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#41

Post by dathinab »

henvic wrote: post #21

In my opinion, GPL is just another flavor of proprietary software and they should stop calling it free software or even opensource. Something like "Copyleft shared source" would make more sense to what it really is. https://medium.com/@henvic/opensource-and-go-what-license-f6...

It's free software which tried to enforce freedom about itself. I.e. the only freedom it lacks is the freedom to lose it's freedom.

Which is generally a good idea even wrt. law in general as you elsewise tend to end up in a situation where theoretically everything is free but practically nothing is.

Still GPL is quite a mixed pack but never hurts when used in (close to) end-user products. (It can hurt send used in tooling like a database.)

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#42

Post by mcannon »

bad_user wrote: post #40
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

You can easily deny location data to games and people that are concerned about these apps will not share their location lightly. I have no app on my iPhone with the ability to use my location in the background, not even Waze or Google Maps. Also I don't care about deletion policies. That data should not be collected in the first place. I don't know about any specifics, but if the data isn't anonymized somehow, on the…

Did you know that on iOS it doesn’t even ask for location, and on Android that’s required for Bluetooth?

The source code will show you what is done with that (as others who have decompiled it already have shown it doesn’t use the location anywhere).

You can choose to get the virus - but that’s a pretty silly choice IMHO. And if you do, please stay home and don’t give it to anyone else.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#43

Post by Buckgw »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

Well said

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#44

Post by joshisme »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

Great Advice Mike!

Need more leaders in the industry, like yourself, in the media fighting the bad press and lies around this.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#45

Post by discordance »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

I would love to trust them more, but the Australian government does not have a good track record with regards to privacy. Two such recent examples:

- Australian's browser history is being provided to law enforcement even though that practice was excluded from the original intent and law [0]

- Australia passed laws in 2018 which enable law enforcement to compel tech companies into inserting backdoors into their software [1]

0: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/07/web-browsing-h...

1: https://www.wired.com/story/australia-encryption-law-global-...

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#46

Post by lukevdp »

dathinab wrote: post #38
lukevdp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PM said it would be stored by Amazon in Australia.

But does that matter? There is still the CLOUDE act (I think it was called). And secret courts.

Doesn't matter to me personally, but I think some people feel more comfortable with the data being held in Australia. I only mention it because the news story that parent saw did not mention it.

I agree with you about the other issues, but they are separate to this imo. The determination that was released under the biosecurity act yesterday made it pretty clear what the data can legally be used for.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#47

Post by alensw11 »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

Hey Mike,

Great work. But why do they need to store user data in the server anyway? Couldn’t that all be stored on the persons phone and then when someone tests positive, only send that person’s data to everyone’s phone and do the contact matching locally?

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#48

Post by NewLogic »

mcannon wrote: post #42
bad_user wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily deny location data to games and people that are concerned about these apps will not share their location lightly. I have no app on my iPhone with the ability to use my location in the background, not even Waze or Google Maps. Also I don't care about deletion policies. That data should not be collected in the first place. I don't know about any specifics, but if the data isn't anonymized somehow, on the…

Did you know that on iOS it doesn’t even ask for location, and on Android that’s required for Bluetooth? The source code will show you what is done with that (as others who have decompiled it already have shown it doesn’t use the location anywhere). You can choose to get the virus - but that’s a pretty silly choice IMHO. And if you do, please stay home and don’t give it to anyone else.

This is more a stand on principles against governments rather than if the app is actually malicious in nature. People are rightly making a stand that a project of this nature should require at the bare minimum for source code to release concurrently with protection laws. Blame successive governments if individuals aren't overly welcoming to putting their blind faith in promises of a government that has let them down in the past.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#49

Post by PudgePacket »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

Aus gov has a terrible track record with information systems. Data leaks & breaches, flaky IT services, mass robo-debt claims of which 600,000 needed to be re-evaluated.

Not to mention rushing through privacy destroying laws citing "Islamist terrorism, paedophile networks and organised crime". If you are who I think you are you're probably more knowledgable of the particular 2018 law than me.

And now they're "rushing out" an app that is intended to track everyone in the country's precise location and who they interact with? I'll wait for the source thank you.

The gov only has themselves to blame for this reputation.

Apple and Google are releasing official APIs for this, we're doing amazingly well in Australia, can it not wait a week?

> Remind them how little time they think before they download dozens of free, adware crap games that are likely far worse for their data & privacy than this ever would be!

Isn't it an interesting point that these people would rather trust foreign companies they've never heard of with their location, rather than their own gov?

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/jul/29/austr...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-09/abs-website-inaccessi...

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/22/pay-t...

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20181208/14440541184/austr...

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#50

Post by cyphar »

lukevdp wrote: post #33
cyphar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're agreeing with the OP. The point they were making was that the Australian government could've gotten the source code under an alternative license by asking the sole copyright holder (which I believe is either the Singaporean government, or a contractor of the Singaporean government). But to be honest, as an Aussie I don't think our government is remotely competent enough to have considered the copyright license…

Do you have a source for the source code not being released for “national security”?

They didn't say it was for national security ("or some other such rubbish" was the point I was making -- that it was a bullshit reason, not that it was a direct quote). The Health Minister claimed that having the source code public would make it easier to hack[1]. But it's just as ridiculous of a statement.

[1]: https://www.itnews.com.au/news/health-minister-now-unsure-if...

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