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Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

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Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#91

Post by temac »

tastroder wrote: post #2

It's interesting to see these tracing app discussions crop up all over the world at the moment. In Germany it quite literally took dozens of public interest groups, two weeks of media attention, EU guidance and an open letter by hundreds of scientists to make the government switch from central data collection to an acceptable decentralised approach. The amount of misinformation put out by lobby groups in the process…

> In Germany it quite literally took dozens of public interest groups, two weeks of media attention, EU guidance and an open letter by hundreds of scientists to make the government switch from central data collection to an acceptable decentralised approach.

Interesting. Do you have any pointer on the current German approach? I've been looking at the Robert protocol from Inria+Fraunhofer, and I'm not sure I like the central secret DB it requires.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#92

Post by dang »

processing wrote: post #88
discordance wrote: post #53

@Dang - there are a suspicious number of new users on this thread leaving positive comments about the about the Australian governments new surveillance app

Yes, don't think they were aware of news profile names being green for first <2 weeks. In this instance for the 5 hours they signed up to astroturf.

Please don't do this. The site guidelines ask you not to: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#93

Post by dang »

chippy wrote: post #86
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

Your account was created almost a decade ago. Is this really the first and only comment? Why is this? Another user called you "mike" in their comment. Are you famous or noteworthy in relation to this story somehow? Why should your comment have weight behind it?

You can answer your questions by looking at the OP, which will take you to https://twitter.com/mcannonbrookes/status/125437688433222860..., which will take you to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Cannon-Brookes.

Given the timestamp on your comment I'm guessing that you're not in Australia. I'm not either, so it took some time to piece together the context. Given that the thread was mostly during Australian hours, most commenters probably already had it in cache.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#94

Post by justinclift »

timkam wrote: post #3

I would assume many GPL-licensed applications are GPL non-compliant. From a user's perspective, what are the most relevant problems when this is the case? (Excluding problems of philosophical nature that only free software geeks care about. No intention to be disrespectful; but the more practical the problems, the more likely it is that ordinary users can relate to them.)

Personally, if I use an application and it doesn't quite work properly (for me), I'll submit fixes to the author. Depending on time/effort required of course. :)

If it turns out a GPL app doesn't have the source available, then it's kind of a moot point. No fix can be made, and I probably wouldn't keep it installed either. ;)

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#95

Post by pca184 »

salan781 wrote: post #80
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

Even if the government has the best intentions in this instance, it doesn’t matter. They have already created a set of laws that clearly dictate that this app and this data can be used how ever intelligence communities desire. They have burned all goodwill and trust with the public. It doesn’t matter what they say today unless they repeal AABill etc. Otherwise they’re just saying empty words.

Interpreting legislation without any common law / precedence is difficult. However as a general rule, if there are two laws that are conflicting (such as previous anti-privacy laws vs the proposed safeguards) the most recent enacted law applies, especially if it is specific. So while I’m by no means a fan of the erosion of privacy that this government has done previously, the proposed safeguards would be effective and not just empty words (at least legally speaking). Also I’m being pedantic, but you repeal Acts, not bills. A Bill is proposed legislation that isn’t law yet

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#96

Post by emaz1ng »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

Interesting that the top comment is pure misinformation as explained by the 2nd and following comments.

Nice try government :)

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#97

Post by tmpz22 »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

“The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better.”

― George Orwell, 1984

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#98

Post by jfoster »

discordance wrote: post #45
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

I would love to trust them more, but the Australian government does not have a good track record with regards to privacy. Two such recent examples: - Australian's browser history is being provided to law enforcement even though that practice was excluded from the original intent and law [0] - Australia passed laws in 2018 which enable law enforcement to compel tech companies into inserting backdoors into their softwa…

Do you honestly believe that they are trying to do something other than stem the harm from this pandemic, or are you just protesting about something they did in the past that you're not happy about? If it is the latter, have you considered the harm that your protest may be doing?

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#99

Post by godelski »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

> - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together.

I actually believe this is helpful. Just in any democratic setting you want different types of players. You want the "burn the system down" people, because they provide harsh critiques and don't hold back. You want the "okay, but I have reservations" people, because they will push forward but also consider what they are doing (and will likely whistleblow if things get out of hand). You want the loyalists because they will push forward despite criticism. The trick is that you need a balance of these people (and the unmentioned players).

Specifically here I don't think we've even answered the question of "should we have contact tracing apps?" Because of this, I do think having that angry mob is helpful. They loyalists will push forward building it but the mob will help us decide if we even want that technology in our society. If we decide we do, we'll have it. If we decide we don't, well we'll know better how they would be designed.

__Being critical of those in power is a keystone to democracy.__

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#100

Post by Daishiman »

discordance wrote: post #45
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

I would love to trust them more, but the Australian government does not have a good track record with regards to privacy. Two such recent examples: - Australian's browser history is being provided to law enforcement even though that practice was excluded from the original intent and law [0] - Australia passed laws in 2018 which enable law enforcement to compel tech companies into inserting backdoors into their softwa…

The Australian government is not a single monolothic institution. It's a set of hundreds of thousands of people with different agendas and intentions. You cannot assign singular agency to the entire government; rather we have to go case-by-case to understand the implications of programs like these.
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