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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

ukiahcommunityblog.wordpress.com

441–450 of 462 posts

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#441
post #41

"Driving Bentleys ruined me for BMWs and their poor make quality" Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it. All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than al…

>Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it.

Sure, but the standard on living on most of the things she mentions is better than the US in lots of others European countries, even if they're not as high as Switzerland...

>All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than alive in Switzerland

That's beside the point, since that "work-life balance" is enjoyed by the overwhelming majority in Switzerland -- whereas that's not true for ANY city of comparable size in the US.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#442
post #433
post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You guys are lazy. I like work... because I'm American" is a pretty garden-variety troll.

Where is the word lazy mentioned or even implied? I do like working. And this is a traditional characteristic of Americans. With all the America bashing that goes on (some admittedly deserved) this is a thing I'm particularly proud of about my country. I'm proud of what we have invented, what we have achieved in very short period of time. I'd like to be part of that tradition. Your trolling accusation is entirely unf…

"I didn't imply others were lazy, I'm just proud that America is different because we work hard"? Seriously?

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#443
post #442
post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the word lazy mentioned or even implied? I do like working. And this is a traditional characteristic of Americans. With all the America bashing that goes on (some admittedly deserved) this is a thing I'm particularly proud of about my country. I'm proud of what we have invented, what we have achieved in very short period of time. I'd like to be part of that tradition. Your trolling accusation is entirely unf…

"I didn't imply others were lazy, I'm just proud that America is different because we work hard"? Seriously?

One would have to really stretch to get the lazy implication. America is different. That's factual. America does (or did) have a culture of hard work and innovation. I'm proud of this and don't make any attempt to hide that. That says nothing about other people.

I did take a moment to read the complaints in your profile and have some kind of idea that you might be susceptible to feeling abuse from public forums and have very rigid ideas of how people should behave in them. I encourage a bit more flexibility in your thinking. Again, not trolling. That accusation is way off base (and in fact, a trolling behavior itself). You really should apologize.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#444
post #41

"Driving Bentleys ruined me for BMWs and their poor make quality" Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it. All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than al…

Since 2001 I've lived and worked in Finland, Denmark & Sweden. Achieving a healthy & meaningful work-life balance is emphasized in the Nordic countries (I do not know about Luxembourg) The authors experience in Switzerland strikes a familiar chord with me. I have close friends in the Valley who envy me because I get 6 weeks a year off. I don't think this article is necessarily about high salaries and the luxuries you…

[Off Topic] - did he have his bottom button done at https://youtu.be/xNzXze5Yza8?t=41 ? :)

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#445
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since 2001 I've lived and worked in Finland, Denmark & Sweden. Achieving a healthy & meaningful work-life balance is emphasized in the Nordic countries (I do not know about Luxembourg) The authors experience in Switzerland strikes a familiar chord with me. I have close friends in the Valley who envy me because I get 6 weeks a year off. I don't think this article is necessarily about high salaries and the luxuries you…

[Off Topic] - did he have his bottom button done at https://youtu.be/xNzXze5Yza8?t=41 ? :)

[deleted]

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#446
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you figure? Top tax bracket is 39.6% when taxable income is over $413,201. On the first $9225 of that you pay 10% just like everyone else. From 1944 to 1963 the top rate was not less than 91% From 1932 to 1981 the top rate was not less than 63%

39.6% is the top federal income tax bracket. There are also state income taxes (in most states), local income taxes in a few places (e.g., NYC), payroll tax (social security, etc.), real estate taxes and sales taxes. Add up all the taxes and you can easily reach 45%.

exactly. 45% is actually pretty near the maximum :/

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#448
post #443
post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I didn't imply others were lazy, I'm just proud that America is different because we work hard"? Seriously?

One would have to really stretch to get the lazy implication. America is different. That's factual. America does (or did) have a culture of hard work and innovation. I'm proud of this and don't make any attempt to hide that. That says nothing about other people. I did take a moment to read the complaints in your profile and have some kind of idea that you might be susceptible to feeling abuse from public forums and h…

> That says nothing about other people.

If you say group X is different because it has more of quantity Y, then it means that you think non-Xers have less of quantity Y. You can't say a demographic is noted for a virtue, then say that this is not a comment on other people - because those other people are the baseline against which the measure is made.

> You really should apologize.

Really? Right after you accuse me a stretching, then immediately use my profile to say something I never suggested? My profile commentary is asking for accountability in the way the forum moderation works, not demanding that people behave a certain way. People are free to disagree all they want, but the way the forum manages disagreement sucks - how many times do we see people genuinely puzzled about why their comments get downmodded, and asking for explanations?

It's also a bit much to be accused of being susceptible to feeling abuse, then having an apology demanded over a passing internet disagreement. You want me to grow a thick skin, but don't have one yourself?

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#449
post #448
post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One would have to really stretch to get the lazy implication. America is different. That's factual. America does (or did) have a culture of hard work and innovation. I'm proud of this and don't make any attempt to hide that. That says nothing about other people. I did take a moment to read the complaints in your profile and have some kind of idea that you might be susceptible to feeling abuse from public forums and h…

> That says nothing about other people. If you say group X is different because it has more of quantity Y, then it means that you think non-Xers have less of quantity Y. You can't say a demographic is noted for a virtue, then say that this is not a comment on other people - because those other people are the baseline against which the measure is made. > You really should apologize. Really? Right after you accuse me a…

I'm not down voting you and I don't have any friends on here to do so. I don't know why you are getting greyed out.

I looked back through your comment history. Mostly reasonable comments with a couple of sort of unfounded accusations of trolling. I did see one comment where you talked about Japanese being hard workers and industrious. Would you consider that calling everyone lazy?

It doesn't matter. I gave my opinion. You are free to consider it trolling if you chose. I like working mostly. I'm proud of my culture. You seem like a generally decent guy. I'm dropping it.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And my point is that hers is very one-sided and there's some serious selection bias going on. Living in Switzerland can actually suck. It's expensive - about 2+ times the rest of Europe and there is some serious xenophobia. Benefits in the US are not unusual and are pretty darn good by world standards. But hey, everyone loves a grass-is-greener post.

I'm sure it can suck but compared to the US I think it's far better for the majority of citizens. I'm saying this not as a European or an American with a particular bias either way but as an Australian who's been in both countries and frequently interacts with their citizens. I'm also someone who's worked in "low" positions (cooked fries at McDonald's) as well as someone who's worked in "high" positions (Software Eng…

And I think that's where we differ. Your focus is on the people 'right at the bottom', as is the focus of many who engage in this kind of debate. I tend to look at the whole picture: Those at the bottom, working class salarymen and women in the middle, innovators at the top, middle-class employees who want to become entrepreneurs and job creators and those at the bottom who want to do the same.

I'm a South African immigrant to the United States. I've lived in the UK and worked there for 5 years. I've also lived in France for a year, spent 8 months in Brazil and have family there, lived in the US for over a decade and been an employee, startup founder and now executive. I've traveled extensively. My first real job was scraping a harbor crane boom down to the metal and painting it while covered in metal dust, paint and solvent - and for a wage that makes minimum wage in the USA look like a kings ransom.

So I have been at the bottom, I've been a low level techie in a laser printer repair company, I've been a top tier developer and I've starved while starting a company. I've also created a company that creates jobs for others and that is continuing to do so.

I think you and I and the rest of the readers see that click-baity blog post for what it is. At least I hope you do. It's a sample of one and is rather opinionated.

The Swiss have their issues too - I've already mentioned xenophobia - add to that harboring tax evaders, banning the building of mosques (minaret controversy), banning asylum seekers from entering public places in certain towns, and a long complicated history of putting money before morals. But the Swiss and their country are not what I take issue with.

My issue is that I'm tired of the constant whining drum beat that the USA is so bloody awful and we should look at place X, Y or Z as a shining light of how amazing things could be.

I'm 41 and I've been around the World and around the block a few times. Trust me when I tell you that the difference between developing countries and the USA is staggering in terms of personal security, quality of life, healthcare (Yup. Just look at the number of CT/PET scan machines and speed of diagnosis of fast moving diseases like cancer) and opportunity. What this means is that the USA is doing a hell of a lot better at creating an awesome quality of life than most of the rest of the World. So cherry picking a prosperous country and suggesting that the USA is a disaster is absurd.

Sure, you want cake instead of bread, but both do a really great job of feeding you and most of your brethren around the World have neither. So lets cut the debate, enjoy your bread, open a bakery, employ your brothers and sisters and then do it all over again.

This country really is the land of the free because we get to publicly and loudly speak our minds and explore new ideas without persecution. [I grew up under horrible censorship during Apartheid]. It's the land of the brave because it's filled with innovators who go broke multiple times (like I did) before they earn the privilege of creating jobs, paying more tax and creating useful things. And believe it or not, many of the 1% that are so hated by such a small but very vocal minority in the USA take huge risks with their own money to help fund other entrepreneurs who want to bet everything on creating a business. And those investors do it with incredible empathy and generosity in my experience.

So I say again: I'm tired of these vitriolic attacks on this country, the so called 'one percent' and on businesses who are run by real human beings. Damn right we're far from perfect and there is a lot we can improve upon. But framing this country as a disaster and using that as a departure point for discussing how to improve things is getting really old.

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