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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

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Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#91

Post by pldrnt »

chaostheory wrote: post #40
jkot wrote: post #27

I think article skips anything negative. For start "lunch hour" is mandatory and in reality it means you spend extra hour at work. I would rather spend a hour with my kid than eating with my boss. Second the taxation leaves various compulsory "contributions": social, pension, wealth, tv, petrol etc. It is not 5% but more likely 50% of average salary. And third, I have totally different experience with american compan…

There's one thing I'm interested in since this is on HN... How easy is it to start a venture over there? Also, my old roommate from college works at CERN now as a researcher. He tells me that he can't afford to go out and eat since it's so expensive. Is this true?

I work there.

It is indeed expensive but salaries can change wildly depending on your position.

I think I could afford to go out and eat out but I decided not to. This way I save money to bootstrap my own thing afterwards and I can find some free time to teach myself the skills I will need to do so.

The procedure to start a venture depends on the canton, expect to put in at least 10k to start, plus whatever the notarial fees will be. I do not think I will be incorporating here.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#92

Post by benkuykendall »

sampo wrote: post #73
hga wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The picture looks very different if you use purchasing power parity; per Wikipedia, which cites roughly the same nominal per-capita GDPs, in PPP dollars: Switzerland 58,731 United States 54,596 If you then factor in the demographics....

Just to make comparison even more complicated, I assume in Switzerland you don't need to pay as much for health insurance, and put as much money aside for retirement, and people in US do. And I know college fees in Switzerland are around 1000 to 3000 per year, not 10 000 to 40 000 like in US. So if you have kids, you don't need to save for their college. (...But then you can only send them to European universities. I…

That's the reason I used GDP per capita instead of after-tax income. Even if employees do not need to pay for insurance, retirement, or schooling, the nation as a whole still has to.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#93

Post by Mikeb85 »

rhino369 wrote: post #71
cjsthompson wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France and Germany have a higher standard of living than the U.S. In fact except Greece, Italy and Spain all European countries have a higher standard of living than the U.S.. Face it you are the third world compared to Europe. Ooooh, those poor little jingoistic feewings are butthurt... :D

No they don't. They have higher standards for the lower classes. America has a higher standard of living but is far more sink or swim.

The lower classes' standard of living is all that matters. If you're rich, you can live especially well even in 3rd world countries (where servants are cheap and anything can be paid for).

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#94

Post by hans0l074 »

blfr wrote: post #41

"Driving Bentleys ruined me for BMWs and their poor make quality" Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it. All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than al…

Since 2001 I've lived and worked in Finland, Denmark & Sweden. Achieving a healthy & meaningful work-life balance is emphasized in the Nordic countries (I do not know about Luxembourg) The authors experience in Switzerland strikes a familiar chord with me. I have close friends in the Valley who envy me because I get 6 weeks a year off. I don't think this article is necessarily about high salaries and the luxuries you can afford with that salary (and I'm not saying that that was what you were saying) but I have come to believe that there is a better work-life balance in certain northern european countries than anywhere in the U.S.A (I'm willing to be corrected of course) especially when it comes to maternity and paternity leave. In discussions like these, I am reminded of a video my American friend sent me a while ago : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNzXze5Yza8

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#95

Post by SomeCallMeTim »

rsync wrote: post #56
blfr wrote: post #41

"Driving Bentleys ruined me for BMWs and their poor make quality" Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it. All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than al…

Exactly. I really do love switzerland, but a proper comparison would be to say, Marin County or Boulder or La Jolla. I think our pockets of "switzerland" stand up pretty well in comparison.

I've lived in all three of those locations, and I have to agree that there is awesomeness in all three.

There's also crap, though; all three are only awesome if you're toward the top of the earning spectrum. And even then the vacation allocations (and the guilt tripping related to using vacation) are pathetic, pretty universally in the US (with a few notable exceptions, but even those rarely give you a MONTH OFF every year and expect you to TAKE IT).

Until we have free health care and more standard vacation time and less expected overtime, there will be no Switzerland in the US.

Only privileged rich people living in enclaves have their own Switzerland experience. For all intents and purposes I'm one of those at this point, for what it's worth. I can take my extended vacations now (between contracts), and a few people I know will take an unpaid month away from work every few years. If I work overtime, it's for a high hourly rate for every hour I spend (depending on project type and client, between $150-$250/hour).

But the majority of people, even here in Boulder, still have a max 2 weeks of vacation a year, unpaid mandatory overtime, and pretty pathetic salaries to boot (considering the cost of living). Hardly paradise. Certainly not Switzerland, for them.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#96

Post by sampo »

letitgo12345 wrote: post #83
sampo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to make comparison even more complicated, I assume in Switzerland you don't need to pay as much for health insurance, and put as much money aside for retirement, and people in US do. And I know college fees in Switzerland are around 1000 to 3000 per year, not 10 000 to 40 000 like in US. So if you have kids, you don't need to save for their college. (...But then you can only send them to European universities. I…

On the other hand you have to pay a lot more in taxes.

/u/hga compared purchasing power, so taxes are already accounted for in the numbers above.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#97

Post by JamesBarney »

While I agree with many of the sentiments in the article, I don't think a comparison of wages is entirely fair. Some small nations have an out-sized GDP per capita such as Switzerland, Luxembourg, and Singapore because of their large financial industries. These industries are possible because the countries attract wealth and the wealthy through very low taxes(like Singapore) or very strong banking secrecy laws. And while bringing in a large amount of wealth can lead to a GDP per capita for boost small countries its not reproducible when a country is the size of the United States.[0]

[0] - Because if every billionaire in the world moved to the U.S. it would barely move the needle on wealth per capita unlike Singapore, Switzerland, and Luxembourg.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#98

Post by alkonaut »

rsync wrote: post #56
blfr wrote: post #41

"Driving Bentleys ruined me for BMWs and their poor make quality" Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it. All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than al…

Exactly. I really do love switzerland, but a proper comparison would be to say, Marin County or Boulder or La Jolla. I think our pockets of "switzerland" stand up pretty well in comparison.

Few in the US who make a lot of money seem to spend it on working 80% rather than on buying a big house or a nicer car. The quality of life difference is cultural, not economical.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#99

Post by enraged_camel »

letitgo12345 wrote: post #79
blfr wrote: post #41

"Driving Bentleys ruined me for BMWs and their poor make quality" Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it. All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than al…

Also looking at PPP per capita (59K vs 53K), it's not that much higher. Norway, I'm not sure should count given their large oil reserves which one cannot really replicate.

10% is actually a pretty significant disparity when you consider the fact that both are developed countries.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#100

Post by mmaunder »

How about no commute because you're working remotely from anywhere in the world, awesome pay, the best health care coverage, dental,options (even with a great base pay package), 401k, relaxed work culture and a company that goes out of it's way to spoil the team. Our company and team are all US based. Sounds like the author picked a nasty US company for her article.
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