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The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

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Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#51

Post by mwcampbell »

cyorir wrote: post #4

I wonder if an "organized secularism" would only copy some the problems found in organized religion. Do people become less religious only because of a rejection of the supernatural, or for other reasons as well? I think some people become less religious for two additional reasons as well: "shared values" and "rituals." A set of shared values is nice until it fails to change in response to changes in the values of ind…

I, for one, abandoned my religion simply because I came to the conclusion that the teachings of the religion itself (evangelical Christianity in my case) weren't true. I have no problem with shared values per se; I could probably get behind a secular humanist community's shared values. And even rituals might be good, as long as the participants don't regard them as time-wasting bullshit.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#52

Post by issa »

I don't think it's necessary to emulate religion/church to achieve the desired benefits. People in modern times can self-organize around all sorts of communities. From independent music "scenes", to Hello Kitty conventions, to Halo, there are plenty of ad hoc communities out there that support their members in many of the ways that matter.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#53

Post by hiphipjorge »

return0 wrote: post #32

Alain de botton has pondered about this as well. http://www.ted.com/talks/alain_de_botton_atheism_2_0?languag... Rituals, let's just call them recurrent events, are a great way to bring people together. When people get together lots of good things can happen. However it has to be tied to something that people care about, not just some made-up gathering without purpose. The ancient greek agora comes to mind.

He has actually started his own version of what the article talks about. It's called The School of Life. People get together in a church-like setting, listen to sermons and sing. It's quite interesting and I'd definitely go if they had one in the Bay Area.

I think it provides a really interesting answer to the problem: "If we don't have God to talk about, then what the hello are we doing here?". Their answer is to focus on how to live better lives and they tackle the problem in a way that's very smart and contemporary.

http://www.theschooloflife.com/london/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFnNgTSkHPM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46YQ09Q3FNk

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#54

Post by hiphipjorge »

dd9990 wrote: post #21
brandonmenc wrote: post #14

> Ritualize No thanks. This is the first thing I started to dislike about being raised Catholic, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I'm the opposite - I miss the community and its events. There's a growing Humanist community where I live precisely for that reason. The vast majority of the population are Catholic so life revolves around Catholic rituals, whether we like it or not. It's great to have secular alternatives for marriages, funerals and baptisms.

Where do you live? What are the alternatives for someone who's curious about these communities?

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#55

Post by chmike »

The Francs Maçons in France is such an organization. It has all the described properties.

It is unfortunately a bit abused by people using the community for career promotion or commercial advantages due to the solidarity among people belonging to this community. Religious comunities display the same perversion.

The reading of the OP's article made it clear to me that our occidental societies are apparently in a strong cultural evolution. I share the conclusion of the author.

Irrationality, dogmas and beliefs have still too much legitimate space in our society. It is a disease when it is used to justify inhuman actions.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#56

Post by jonathankoren »

Animats wrote: post #25

The US used to have that. You can still see the remnants if you look. Rotary International, Kiwanis International, the Independent Order of Foresters, the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the Independent Order of Odd Fellows, the National Grange of the Order of Patrons of Husbandry - all those secular fraternal organizations still exist. The core of these organizations was small business owners, a group which once ran their…

Lodges, while at one time pillars of the local community, isn't the same thing. All the groups mentioned, are/were pretty exclusionary. I believe all of these organizations either currently are, or were historically strictly male. (Perhaps, the VFW was always open to women, but with the military requirement, it still has a strong a filter.) Furthermore, all of these organizations are for adults. While religious services and fellowship opportunities are for the whole family, you can't exactly bring a 3 year old to a Kiwanis club.

You need an thing for all ages.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#57

Post by derekdahmer »

hyperion2010 wrote: post #2

Boy, that list looks pretty similar to the principles of Unitarian Universalism (full disclosure, born and raised). The suggestions are good but if we look at the history of the Unitarian Universalism it was heralded by various scholars as the secular religion for the coming enlightened future. None of that has happened and the fastest growing religious communities these days are fundamentalist, evangelical Christian…

I was also born and raised UU and still appreciate the values of tolerance and education that came out of that. What other church offers its own fact-based sex ed course and has you visit other religious institutions as a requirement for coming of age?

But despite there being UU churches in every major city I've lived in, I haven't been back in a serious way since high school. For me at least, part of the 'implementation' thats missing is the lack of pull to the weekly service. I'd love the community, but don't feel particularly drawn to the actual meat of it. Kinda like wanting to join a soccer team without liking soccer too much.

Community needs some kind of core that is valuable to people in order for a community to form around it and I'm not sure those secular weekly services have the same kind of broadly appealing gravitas that traditional religion provides. As well as there not being enough family-driven guilt to pull early-twenties people back to church during those times when spirituality is less interesting compared to other things in life.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#59

Post by dd9990 »

brandonmenc wrote: post #31
dd9990 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the opposite - I miss the community and its events. There's a growing Humanist community where I live precisely for that reason. The vast majority of the population are Catholic so life revolves around Catholic rituals, whether we like it or not. It's great to have secular alternatives for marriages, funerals and baptisms.

I attend both religious and secular weddings and funerals, and no one seems to be missing a beat. As an agnostic, I've never thought, "we need an alternative." That probably has to do with the fact that marriages and funerals, even religious ones, are already highly personal, custom affairs. > secular alternatives for [...] baptisms An initiation ceremony for secularism? I find that bizarre.

>An initiation ceremony for secularism?

Nothing of the sort. It's a secular christening, .i.e. a party for friends and relatives after the baby is born. I think some European Humanist groups call them naming ceremonies but I haven't been to anything that formal.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#60

Post by shanusmagnus »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #38
tootie wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what makes most religions so inflexible is having a canon which can be difficult to circumvent. If a secular order is based on the opinions of the founders who are treated as wise humans instead of divine, it becomes easier to accept that they could be wrong or just misinformed.

On the other hand, that inflexibility may be what just makes it work. Being held to the same strict standard makes the community much stronger.

This makes sense -- I was trying to figure out why various secular groups with which I'm involved (e.g., improv theatre, or the guys at the gym) don't have any of the church-like feel. I think it's because they're too flexible -- people are always leaving, forming sub-groups, etc. I like those people but they would never show up at my house to mow my lawn, as another commenter described.

Or maybe 'flexibility' is the wrong word, since the groups I mention are activity-specific, and one's interest in the activity ebbs and flows, whereas one's interest in fellowship with other people in the quest for some kind of human-level goodwill would presumably be constant.

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