A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden • Hacker News Board

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#81

Post by venomsnake » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 3:25 PM UTC

NullCharacter wrote: post #55

venomsnake wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manning was not whistleblower.

And neither is Snowden. After you grab a million files constituting nearly half a terabyte of top secret data and abscond with it to China (and then Russia), despite what your very best intentions may be, I don't think the title "whisteblower" is still applicable.

First - no one has quantified what exactly Snowden has. Second so far only the western media have had access to the files. Third there was not any proof that he had copy of the information while he was in Hong Kong.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#82

Post by fixxer » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 3:25 PM UTC

So, Snowden uncovered the government's willingness to violate civil liberties, yet should have still expected his civil liberties to not be violated if he blew the whistle?

Ugh. Bunch of assholes we got running this place.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#83

Post by scrupulusalbion » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 3:25 PM UTC

> Right now, he's running away from the consequences of his actions.

So this is what passes for responsibility according to the President's advisors? It might be appropriate to bring this up the next time Obama undermines some reportedly-bad Republican-made policy and the Repbulicans turn around and demand that Obama step down as president. According to Lisa Monaco, it would be irresponsible for Obama to run away from the consequences of his actions by not stepping down in that situation.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#84

Post by plonh » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 3:26 PM UTC

dataker wrote: post #59

>not hide behind the cover of an authoritarian regime Is the White House this much hostile towards Russia? Besides from Iran or North Korea, I'd never expect diplomats to be as straightforward as in this statement.

Hey, after last week, Iran is not evil anymore. In fact, Iram has never been evil now.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#85

Post by dean » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 3:26 PM UTC

> The balance between our security and the civil liberties that our ideals and our Constitution require deserves robust debate

Oh the irony. deserves robust debate. Ha. It would all still be a secret if not for Snowden.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#86

Post by zaphar » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 3:26 PM UTC

jgrowl wrote: post #58

Mithaldu wrote: post #47

As a non-american it's kind of hilarious to have the american government, with all its powers, assets and resources figuratively yell at a single individual: "Come out and fight like a man!" The fact that someone thought this kind of response is appropiate in any way means one of two things: 1. They think the american populace is irrelevant and they can flip them the bird unscathed. 2. They think they have substantia…

Considering they were responding directly to people that signed the petition to have Snowden pardoned, I don't know how their intended reaction could be anything other than frustration and rage. It's like David and Goliath. Except where Goliath is the largest, most powerful military in the world with nukes and fighter jets. David is just a pale nerdy guy with a keyboard.

Didn't you know? These days the pale nerdy guy with a keyboard is almost more of a threat than a nation state with nukes. This whole internet and technology thing somehow got bigger than all of them when they weren't looking.

All you have to do is look at the continued requests for a "golden" key, the constant attempts to get rid of net neutrality, the frequent attacks on various nations electronic infrastructure.

Those guys with keyboards are scary as all get out to most of the governments out there.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#87

Post by staltz » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 3:26 PM UTC

Overall the response is appealing to the "fear" message: "We live in a dangerous world. We continue to face grave security threats like terrorism, cyber-attacks" The fear message is the primary tool authoritarian regimes use to control its population.

And this:

> Mr. Snowden's dangerous decision to steal and disclose classified information had severe consequences ...

"Steal" makes no sense as a description of what Snowden did. He didn't delete digital information, he just copied it. Everything that Snowden has is still with NSA. It seems this official response was written to appeal to non-technical people who are easily convinced by well-crafted government speech.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#88

Post by Zikes » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 3:27 PM UTC

plonh wrote: post #78

bjarnagin wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a real problem. I was dismissed from a DUI case last year because I felt that it was a problem that the officer had forcibly administered a blood test while at the scene (this was after the Supreme Court case). The judge and prosecutor were very vocal about the fact that they were only interested in jurors who would be content to entertain whether the accused was intoxicated, without going any further into th…

I hear his sort of comment often. I don't understand why people value "being honest to a lawyer who is obstructing justice" over "fulfilling their civil duty to serve on a jury".

At best, the juror would be dismissed and replaced as soon as their lie was revealed.

At worst, the juror would be held in contempt of court (or similar) and become another victim of that same corrupt justice system.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#89

Post by agd » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 3:29 PM UTC

titzer wrote: post #31

The pervasive surveillance activities of the government are one thing; one could kind of expect it in the absence of law or a constitution. But it's not just that. The deliberate activities to undermine, weaken, and even ban encryption and the very foundations for secure communications is just plain dirty. It's clear that the thrust of these programs was never the best interest of the public, but furtherance of espio…

> It's shown the government as a cabal who will use every weapon in its arsenal to fight those who would do anything to expose how corrupt and self-serving it's become.

I think we've reached a point where there are substantial numbers of people in government and the intelligence community who genuinely don't believe whistle-blowing is ever justified.

I don't know if it's blind faith in the effectiveness of oversight or irrational patriotism, but I've spoken to quite a few people who think this way.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#90

Post by Zikes » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 3:31 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #80

I think Snowden is a traitor. Not for releasing the information, but for going to Hong Kong (China), and then to Russia. Snowden had access to a lot more information than was released. I do not honestly think Russia would have let him stay without requiring something from him. Taking classified/secret information to a hostile country is treason. If he had done what Ellsburg did and stayed in the United States and fac…

I think you're skipping the part where he gave the information to respected Western journalistic organizations and didn't actually have it on his person when he went overseas.

Because frankly, that would be an incomprehensibly stupid move on his part.