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Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

nytimes.com

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Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#301

Post by bsaul »

jokr004 wrote: post #220
bsaul wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should apply our logic to ourselves, and theirs to themselves. That means, be rational, and not expect them to be.

Oh, I think I misunderstood your wording. But in reality, the theocracy in Iran doesn't hold absolute power.. there is some semblance of a democracy and at the end of the day the government does face the scrutiny of its people and the international community, just like every other nation.. saying they are completely devoid of logic is just foolish.

My main point is regarding matters of life and death. You can't be sure how someone who truely sincerely believe he's going to heaven for spreading islam via murder is going to handle nuclear power.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#302

Post by tome »

apta wrote: post #299
tome wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's a separate question which I don't have a complete answer for, but I will note that the number of displaced people at the formation of Israel is not particularly notable given the sizes of population transfers that happened around that time for the formation, or reformation, of nation states.

That makes it right then? What about the number of people killed since that time? And the complete destabilization and polarization of the region due to what happened?

This is very much off-topic, but briefly: Iraq vs ISIS vs Assad vs Al Nusra vs Hezbollah has absolutely nothing to do with Israel. Qadafi, Saddam and Khomenei had absolutely nothing to do with Israel. The destabilization and polarization of the Middle East has nothing to do with Israel. If anything, Israel unites the arabs in hatred against it.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#303

Post by apta »

tome wrote: post #302
apta wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes it right then? What about the number of people killed since that time? And the complete destabilization and polarization of the region due to what happened?

This is very much off-topic, but briefly: Iraq vs ISIS vs Assad vs Al Nusra vs Hezbollah has absolutely nothing to do with Israel. Qadafi, Saddam and Khomenei had absolutely nothing to do with Israel. The destabilization and polarization of the Middle East has nothing to do with Israel. If anything, Israel unites the arabs in hatred against it.

I agree to some extent. At the same time though, ISIS and AlNusra arose because Iraq was invaded and their government destroyed, and the existence of Israel played a big role in facilitating that. The US had to step in to defend its ally in the region.

Look today at how everyone wants to stop the Iranian (and previously, the Iraqi) regime from acquiring nuclear arms, whereas North Korea is getting away with whatever they want. Even though their government is arguably much, much worse in practically every front than the Iranian and Iraqi regimes.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#304

Post by tome »

apta wrote: post #303
tome wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very much off-topic, but briefly: Iraq vs ISIS vs Assad vs Al Nusra vs Hezbollah has absolutely nothing to do with Israel. Qadafi, Saddam and Khomenei had absolutely nothing to do with Israel. The destabilization and polarization of the Middle East has nothing to do with Israel. If anything, Israel unites the arabs in hatred against it.

I agree to some extent. At the same time though, ISIS and AlNusra arose because Iraq was invaded and their government destroyed, and the existence of Israel played a big role in facilitating that. The US had to step in to defend its ally in the region. Look today at how everyone wants to stop the Iranian (and previously, the Iraqi) regime from acquiring nuclear arms, whereas North Korea is getting away with whatever…

I think you'll find the proximity to the world's largest oil reserves is the overriding concern, not proximity to Israel.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#305

Post by mark_l_watson »

bsaul wrote: post #300
mark_l_watson wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that Iran has ever invaded another country in modern history, right? I must admit some bias here: I am a U.S. Citizen and I firmly believe that better relations with Iran are in my country's best interest. I am biased in my country's best interest!

I really wonder what advantage you think iran will bring to the US. Unless you think that radical islamism is a good ideology to spread around the world, and that the shariah may be a good basis for civil laws, because that's certainly where all the oil dollars earned by iran are going in the coming years ( just like saudi arabia spread its vision of islam in the past 30 years).

Good question, thanks.

Right now, there are many young Iranians who are neutral or slightly pro-USA (they are too young to remember that we helped overthrown their democratically elected premier in the 1950s and installed the Shaw of Iran - we rememebr how that turned out for the Iranian people).

So, yes some risk, but for the USA I think the risk is very worthwhile.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#306

Post by jarnix »

colinbartlett wrote: post #269
jarnix wrote: post #263

I thought I was on "Hacker News", why is this post on the front page?

This is rehashed often. It's "news that hackers would find interesting" not "news about computers". If an article does not gratify your intellectual curiosity, I suggest just ignoring it.

Lol, that looks like an automated response from a bot.

Moderation could add value to the community by removing these posts.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#308

Post by apta »

tome wrote: post #304
apta wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree to some extent. At the same time though, ISIS and AlNusra arose because Iraq was invaded and their government destroyed, and the existence of Israel played a big role in facilitating that. The US had to step in to defend its ally in the region. Look today at how everyone wants to stop the Iranian (and previously, the Iraqi) regime from acquiring nuclear arms, whereas North Korea is getting away with whatever…

I think you'll find the proximity to the world's largest oil reserves is the overriding concern, not proximity to Israel.

So, the US is using Israel as a means of getting to oil reserves? :-)

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#309

Post by glenndebacker »

maratd wrote: post #284
Udik wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. The vast majority of the recent events described in that page are either of political nature and directed towards Israel (a random one: "In January 2009, group of members of ruling Social Democrats (former Communists party) demanded a boycott of Israeli products because of the Gaza war") or completely trivial (some teenager writing something against Jews on a wall) or simply imaginary ("In 1998, Ignatz Bubis s…

Oh that's cute, so when Jews are killed it's terrorism, but when they're not, it's trivial? Europe used to have a population of Jews numbering in the millions. You killed most of them off and chased the rest out. But oh, how you've changed! > The fact is, Europeans are much stronger critics of Israel's actions than Americans are. What I find fascinating is that Israel's neighbors are guilty of far, far worse. But peo…

>> You have killed them off

To be honest I find your idiotic remark disrespectful. I live in a country that suffered a lot under two world wars. While I certainly acknowledge that jewish people suffered a lot it certainly wasn't the case that the rest was living a trouble free life. I know from my grandfather that in my family there was also a cost regarding lost lives.

And them I'm ignoring the fact how you could make me personally responsible for something that happened 40 years before I even was born and even in another country.

>> But people like you ignore the slaughter in Syria, the suppression in Egypt, and all the other crazy that happens in virtually every country in the Middle East

Except that in Europe those events are also wel documented and criticised for example http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/News/1.1711852, etc.

ALL events where people suffer are critiqued that is even the fact for normal Israeli-an people that suffer from terroristic actions. We are critiques of any form om terrorism being religious or state terrorism.

But it is not that because middle eastern countries are doing despicable stuff that Israel should get a free pass. While you can't be blind for those thing that is also the case for the illegal settlements, the "collective punishment" mantra, the constant war mongering, etc.

>> It wouldn't be because you're an "evil racist" would it?

There seems to be only one clearly uninformed bigot... .

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