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Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

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Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#681
post #622
post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if she was a bad leader or not. My big concern is this populist approach to firing people. Enough people don't like a company officer? Cobble a "movement" and generate enough controversy to force them to step down. I think unless they egregiously violate company policy or violate the law or do something which would bring damage to a company it should be up to the company to direct the fate of an officer.…

> Maybe she deserved to be fired, maybe she was a terrible officer. Let the company make that decision. I dont like tho mob rule aspect to her stepping down. Her job was to preside over that mob. And apparently to monetize it. Pissing off that mob means she failed at her job . In addition, not understanding that you are firing a key employee shows a dramatic level of ignorance. Reddit has so few employees that even a…

That's all good -fine. If she did wrong, let the company deal with it. They hired her. But here she's been left out to dry. Totally different from Toyota where an executive smuggled prescription drugs into Japan[1] and the company stood by her --she stepped down once she understood the implications of her transgression in the eyes of Japanese law.

But this is not the company firing her --it's the internet firing her. I don't like this approach at all. management by popular opinion is not good. Imagine managing a professional sports team by popular vote --it'd be nuts.

[1]http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/19/us-toyota-executiv...

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also applaud Reddit's announcement for calling the community out on their childish BS You mean this? > [1] Disagreements are fine. Death threats are not, are not covered under free speech, and will continue to get offending users banned. All that opposition - strong enough to convince "Chairman Pao" to resign - reduced to death threats? All those arbitrary bans written off as a just punishment for criminal behavi…

Calling her "Chairman Pao" is racist, but moreso, reductive.

Also funny which trumps both even if true.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#683
post #44

> Sam Altman, a member of Reddit’s board, said he personally appreciated Ms. Pao’s efforts during her two years working at the start-up. “Ellen has done a phenomenal job, especially in the last few months,” he said. This is clearly nonsense, otherwise there wouldn't have been a grassroots campaign to remove Ellen Pao from her role. If Sam Altman honestly believes that Ellen did a "phenomenal" job, he should reconside…

Seems like just yesterday! http://blog.samaltman.com/a-new-team-at-reddit > I am delighted to announce the new team we have in place. Ellen Pao will be stepping up to be interim CEO. Because of her combination of vision, execution, and leadership, I expect that she’ll do an incredible job.

It is still incredible what she managed to do ...

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#684
post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if she was a bad leader or not. My big concern is this populist approach to firing people. Enough people don't like a company officer? Cobble a "movement" and generate enough controversy to force them to step down. I think unless they egregiously violate company policy or violate the law or do something which would bring damage to a company it should be up to the company to direct the fate of an officer.…

You mean the same mob rule that HN seemed to support to make sure Brandon Eich lost his CEO position?

Yes, the same one. I don't have to agree with him or Ms Pao. But I cannot agree with popular putsches approach to policy. As Mr Schaubler recently said, there are rules, meaning there are processes.

But we have seen this play out many many times. Someone is accused --accused, not proven.. and the slightest whiff the company drops the person like a bad contagion. And, so now people expect this from companies. Complain enough and have someone fired. Someone said something crass while drunk 'aha!' fire them, behavior unbecoming. As if these people, unlike us, are not human and can't err. We're scared to see our ugliness in others. Oh the terrible reminder of our frailties! OMG, they were caught in a sting operation and had a rendezvous in a bathroom with a stranger! [Do the private sex lives of executives really matter? Oh but public perception, gasp!]

I don't think companies and organizations should manage by popular opinion. No one will be willing to make bold choices for fear of upsetting some base of people.

If an officers' views are contrary to the official org position, or behavior was egregious or against the law, then sure. If the organizational action simply coincides with popular opinion, then fine --but don't take action _just_ because of popular opinion --that's, to me, not right and gives away control to the whims of the moment.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#685
post #630
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very much like GamerGate. There is an attempt to deflect an overwhelming amount of legitimate criticism by pointing to a few trolls and characterizing all of it as "racist and misogynist".

And just like GamerGate the first reply to this is attacking a woman about her sex life.

Well, gamers are gamers - in games everything is permitted as long as it brings victory. Some of that attitude spills over IRL. We always try to find glitches, exploits, cheats and cheese, imbas and so on. We do so in debates and everywhere else.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about duty of thinking ? I'm often weirded by the freedom of speech argument in non critical contexts. These persons life aren't at risk because they can't express opinions, isn't that what is meant by FoS ? not just a free card to be able to let yourself loose in public. I have no solution, but far too often FoS ends up a noisy non-discussions. ps: I'll add that I was somehow afraid to express my views on Freed…

>These persons life aren't at risk because they can't express opinions, isn't that what is meant by FoS ? No

This thread is very interesting and I deeply appreciate the comments people are making, including FoS, fear to comment on FoS, etc.

I personally respect freedom of speech, except hate. For example, HN strongly discourages attacking another member personally (eg. calling someone else idiot). I consider this a reasonable limit on freedom of speech, but concepts and opinions should be fully open for discussion (eg. pro/anti evolution etc). If the discussions are respectful, then anything should be allowed.

I believe Political Correctness has done more harm than it does good. It has created an unhealthy focus on skin colour, reproductive organs, etc to the point of lunacy. Many people struggle to look past superficial features and seem to lost the ability to make reasoned judgements. Any criticism of a woman gets you labelled a misogynist, regardless of how incapable she is. This continues to undermine the credibility of women that are truly capable in their own right. I'm currently managing a team of women. They all got there on their own merit. I would not hire a woman for the sake of political correctness or because I was bullied by a feminist journalist (as is quite common these days). The women in my team were not selected based on their gender - they were selected based on their talents and attitudes. They were available and capable.

This whole Ellen Pao incident made me think about the validity of comments on sexism and racism that are floating around the net. Compare the attitudes towards the criticisms of Steve Ballmer vs Ellen Pao. One of these individuals contributed to the significant growth of Microsoft, the other didn't manage to achieve much that stands out. Both developed a bad reputation as leaders. Yet, one of these people is being defended and the other is not. The major difference (other than Ballmer's financial track record for Microsoft) is their genders. Political Correctness has driven the need to blindly defend women, no matter how incompetent they may be. The hope is that this behaviour will help "women's rights". I view it as doing the exact opposite ... "jobs for the girls".

It saddens me that we seem to be more sexist, less tolerant and more willing to defend incompetence an an attempt to promote rights for selected members of society.

On a side note, I dislike the term "women's rights". Is it so hard to represent "people's rights"? I believe one of these reflects a destructive, prejudiced mindset and creates a bad attitude of entitlement and encourages sexism. If society said we'd defend the rights of everyone equally based on merit, the world would be a much better place.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#687
post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At last, a voice of reason in hundreds of pointless comments. Free speech is a principle and people should be free to say whatever they want no matter how disgusting or distasteful to the majority or mainstream. This is the ideal of a free society and people who can't make the distinction between supporting the principle and yet rejecting the advocates of idiocy are implicitly advocating some form of government censo…

If your version of free speech means allowing anything to be said anywhere, I don't want it. The principle of free speech I subscribe to is allowing anyone a place such that those who want to listen, can. In essence, to prevent one party silencing a communication between two other parties. Reddit need not be that place.

That's a good definition. But even that approach will fail when those with power define the "place such that those who want to listen, can" to be so small that nobody can find it. An example is the so-called free speech zones at some colleges that are small designated spots far from earshot of the entire campus population.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#688
Friendly reminder that this very website widely supported a campaign to make a black woman leave a board of a tech company. [1] And she actually didn't do anything questionable while being on board, to warrant such an outrage.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7566069

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#689
post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Google just remove the confederate flag from Shopping Express and ads, not from search results? They don't sell Nazi flags in their store or (afaik) let people advertise using them, so this doesn't seem as inconsistent to me as you make it sound.

Yes, and Google is happy to sell you all manner of Nazi items: https://www.google.com/search?q=nazi+swastica&ie=utf-8&oe=ut... Not to mention copies of the Mein Kampf, etc. Thankfully, the various non-Nazi uses of the swastika appear to be the most popular, but you can find plenty of Nazi items. I dislike the meaning of both symbols, so I have a hard time imagining any logic where it's okay to sell one of them but no…

9front, a fork of plan9, includes Mein Kampf in the distribution as a kind of trolling canary.

We only burn the bad books, right?

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#690
post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have appalling speech than censored speech. The idea is to not confuse supporting a person's free speech with endorsing his views. Also, reddit is a private company and so is not obliged to provide a platform for anyone's free speech, that also is a facet of freedom.

At last, a voice of reason in hundreds of pointless comments. Free speech is a principle and people should be free to say whatever they want no matter how disgusting or distasteful to the majority or mainstream. This is the ideal of a free society and people who can't make the distinction between supporting the principle and yet rejecting the advocates of idiocy are implicitly advocating some form of government censo…

The obvious solution to the problem that I don't see on any of these message board sites is simply to allow users to have their own personal blacklists for blocking/filtering users whose comments they don't want to see. Personal differences aside the paid troll farms boosting the noise has really gotten unbearable on the interwebs.
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