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Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

nytimes.com

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Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#531

Post by ceejayoz »

choudanu4 wrote: post #494
ceejayoz wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More than 200k signed, so you're off by a factor of 10. So half a percent of the userbase or so? I'd call that a vocal minority. http://www.redditblog.com/2015/06/happy-10th-birthday-to-us-... > I don't think she was ever going to get back the community's confidence. Likely true. Backing down here likely means zero chance of addressing toxic communities in the site for the foreseeable future.

I think you're overlooking the fact that all 36 million (or however many) people that visit Reddit each month are NOT equal....the active content creators are intrinsically more valuable to a community like reddit, simply because they make the community what it is. When the people that make the content (of which 200k is no insignificant drop) that attracts the other 35 million ad-viewers are unhappy, Reddit MUST do s…

How are you tying the petitioners back to Reddit accounts to gauge their participation rate on the site?

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#533

Post by npizzolato »

morbius wrote: post #258
generic_user wrote: post #221

The knife cuts both ways. The clickbait media and various groups are trying to paint the now predictable narrative of '50 white male racist misogynist neck beards' who want to chase women out of tech again. Over 200,000 people with legitimate concerns sign a petition to have Pao step down yet they still carry on with there charade. People are sick and tired of the media and a small group of militant activists trying…

> now predictable narrative of '50 white male racist misogynist neck beards' who want to chase women out of tech again This is a pretty accurate narrative. You may not agree, but casual misogyny is incredibly pervasive on most defaults, and it's fairly prevalent within the smaller, community-based subs as well. > small group of militant activists trying to silence people who they disagree with If you're referring to…

I really detest the term "casual misogyny", as if everyone is living their lives just "casually" having this deep hatred for women. It so easily deflects any criticism or real discussion because well obviously they're all just casual misogynists.

I think people confuse making some jokes about women with "casual misogyny." People make jokes about everything, including stereotypes of women. Maybe that's in poor taste, and maybe they deserve to be called out for that if it's inappropriate, but it certainly doesn't mean they hate women.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#534

Post by jjoonathan »

geofft wrote: post #522
axlprose wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 4th option would be to just not assign a moral value to their comments, and chose for yourself as an individual to not let yourself be offended by them. It doesn't mean the co-workers were right, but it doesn't penalize them if the didn't intend to be bad (because doing so would be a slippery slope to thought policing). Unless OP thinks his/her co-workers would face Pao in person and tell her those things, or wor…

So here's something that's always struck me as odd about these sorts of defenses of free speech. (This is something I've been thinking about for a bit, so I'm not picking on you specifically, you just reminded me of it.) I believe in the power of speech. I believe that there is utility in being able to convey my thoughts, without someone else filtering or censoring them, to others. I believe that my words mean things…

The point of drunk, hyperbolic speech is to vent frustration. Just because some kinds of speech can raise armies doesn't mean that all kinds of speech should be treated as if they will.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#535

Post by dang »

generic_user wrote: post #221

The knife cuts both ways. The clickbait media and various groups are trying to paint the now predictable narrative of '50 white male racist misogynist neck beards' who want to chase women out of tech again. Over 200,000 people with legitimate concerns sign a petition to have Pao step down yet they still carry on with there charade. People are sick and tired of the media and a small group of militant activists trying…

This comment has no relevance to the top comment it replied to. When we see people doing that, we detach the subthread from its parent.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#536

Post by vacri »

vonklaus wrote: post #503
vacri wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are sick and tired of ... a small group of militant activists trying to silence people who they disagree with. You're damn right people are tired of the shrill MRAs with their short-sighted, selfish, and immature wails, who can't think of anyone but themselves. They're a small group of militant activists crying over what amounts to a skinned knee, always trying to shout down other people, but never being pro…

Honest question, what do you think is an appropriate set of measures to curtail [people you don't like] on the internet? Do you believe the internet should be a safe space?

No, I don't think the internet should be sanitised. But at the same time, I find the MRA shrill talking-points to be of a pretty shallow depth, and, as a group, they're pretty vocally violent. In contrast, I find feminist talking-points to have a fair amount of depth to them. Those feminists who conduct themselves in the shrill manner that MRAs do are just as bad, but when you take those kinds of people away and look at what's left over, it's quite different.

So how should you counter people you don't like? Well, by trying to be mature, and if you fail, trying for better next time. Death threats and rape threats are never okay. Especially if the person in question is not forcing themselves into your life - people go to reddit, reddit does not force themselves into living rooms and makes you read it, nor do many people pay for it.

For the record, I am a white male. I loathe the MRA crowd because they're purely reactionary. Men do have systemic social issues that need addressing, but in general, the MRA crowd isn't actually interested in exploring, discussing, and addressing the issues. Instead, they use men's issues as a weapon with which to beat down discussion that other people are having; there is very little that is proactive in that crowd. For example, here on HN, pretty much all the men's rights stuff has been presented as some sort of counterpoint to a perceived feminist slight... yet these same shrill voices that demand we pay attention to the issues faced by men... never post articles in their own right, only weaponised comments to win internet points.

Threats of violence are never okay unless you're being physically threatened. Immature commentary should never be at the forefront of a social movement, since it's never going to solve root causes and can only provide a superficial salve. These things are destructive, and are all about making the other side lose - an ideal outcome is a win-win situation, though that's not always possible, of course.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#537

Post by threeseed »

AnkhMorporkian wrote: post #459
magicalist wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's lots more to it and by lots you mean...that's about it. Honestly if "There's the fact that she promised better moderator tools something like 6 months ago" was a good criteria for booting a CEO, Reddit would have had ~20 CEOs by now. That was the actual problem, that mods have never had the tools they need, but that's not why she's resigning/being fired.

No, there's more to it. Because I don't want to drag her personal life into it (which does play a role), there were the huge problems with the AMA app, the new privacy policy (which while I agreed with, many didnt), Reddit Notes (the reddit cryptocurrency; perhaps the most jaw-droppingly stupid move in her tenure), and really, many more things.

That's it ?

You must be detached from reality and what a CEO does if you think those deserve being fired for. And seriously even insinuating that her personal life has anything to do with this is frankly disgusting behaviour.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#538

Post by [deleted] »

jellicle wrote: post #406
Nadya wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This? https://i.imgur.com/nrYiK5M.png I find it telling it was negative a majority of the time. Usually "mods" get +1'd just for being mods (common on many forums). It shows, to me at least, that what she said rarely was supported by the community.

It shows to me that she was dogged by misogynists and MRAs excited by the discrimination lawsuit, from the start of her Reddit tenure through to the end. In a similar fashion, if Barack Obama posted something like "Mom and apple pie are both great.", it would be downvoted by his political foes and upvoted by his political allies. That should not be taken as an indication that "the community" opposes or disagrees with…

[deleted]

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#540

Post by Veedrac »

dmfdmf wrote: post #520
WalterBright wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have appalling speech than censored speech. The idea is to not confuse supporting a person's free speech with endorsing his views. Also, reddit is a private company and so is not obliged to provide a platform for anyone's free speech, that also is a facet of freedom.

At last, a voice of reason in hundreds of pointless comments. Free speech is a principle and people should be free to say whatever they want no matter how disgusting or distasteful to the majority or mainstream. This is the ideal of a free society and people who can't make the distinction between supporting the principle and yet rejecting the advocates of idiocy are implicitly advocating some form of government censo…

If your version of free speech means allowing anything to be said anywhere, I don't want it. The principle of free speech I subscribe to is allowing anyone a place such that those who want to listen, can. In essence, to prevent one party silencing a communication between two other parties. Reddit need not be that place.
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