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Facebook’s Piracy Problem

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Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#31
post #22

This should be a fairly open and shut piracy case for the video maker. Zoo is a British magazine with a real company behind it. Facebook is a US-based company and is redistributing the video (and likely making money from the adverts). The video maker is based in the US. He can start with filing a case against FB (seems he has a US lawyer lined up already), and once he collects from that, he pays a UK lawyer to follow…

And Zoo's actions are clearly willful infringement. I don't know if he can apply US law when going after the UK magazine, but in the US willful infringement can lead to $150,000 statutory damages per incident. They can't fall back on the "the user did it, we're not responsible" defense relied on by Facebook, Wikipedia, etc.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#32
post #22

This should be a fairly open and shut piracy case for the video maker. Zoo is a British magazine with a real company behind it. Facebook is a US-based company and is redistributing the video (and likely making money from the adverts). The video maker is based in the US. He can start with filing a case against FB (seems he has a US lawyer lined up already), and once he collects from that, he pays a UK lawyer to follow…

Wouldn't DMCA protect Facebook from legal action here?

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#33

I think the issue that the article points out is valid. But it expands to a bigger face than just Facebook. Namely, any content on the Internet, by virtue of being easily accessed, is easily duplicated. Sites like 9gag and Buzzfeed are full of reposts from Reddit and 4chan. "But wait!" you say, "those aren't the same. Those aren't making money like videos!" But the value of any content is to drive views and growth, a…

If there were some sort of verification for each "content" post (i.e. music, video, image, text) forcing others to link to the original content rather than duplicate it, then the creator gets the benefit, while sites linking to them might be viewed as curators.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#34

It seems like it would be easy for Facebook to support takedowns since it could remove the video from feeds.

Takedowns suck. Content creators don't want that and people driving traffic to their page don't want that. The crucial thing about YouTube and ContentID is that you can leave the videos alone but choose to monetize (take all ad revenue) from a re-uploaded video instead of just showing a black box and a takedown notice. It works and it is seamless on YouTube but I don't know if Facebook has built anything similar. More interesting will be how Facebook and YouTube handle content exclusively uploaded on one platform or the other but re-uploaded cross-platform.

Shameless plug: we (FullScreen) have a video uploader service that uploads to both platforms with several custom options such as staggered release on the two platforms or say putting a short preview clip on Facebook that links to the full video on (monetized) YouTube: http://www.fullscreen.com/2015/05/21/fullscreen-uploader-is-...

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#35

This is super interesting - it seems like facebook's more likely to get away with it too because the people being ripped off are smaller independent YouTube Channels. It seems like YouTube's main incentive to build out copyright infringement tools was all of the record labels that had songs being uploaded and re-uploaded on the platform. I can see YouTube getting really aggressive in fighting FB on this legally, beca…

The content producers should file DMCA notices with the hosts if they don't want their content there. It seems like it would be in the interest of producers to register their works in well-known repositories so that viewers can have a high degree of confidence that the content they are viewing has the claimed provenance.

If youtube could provide DMCA tools to the everyman then things will get interesting. If Google could tell me when and where my video is being pirated I could see this be a HUGE boon to their content distribution system. Everyone would want to distribute with them.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#37
This is absolutely rampant in the blackhat marketing world, (where I used to dabble, but still stay up on mostly out of curiosity).

The model goes like this: Watch a few different pages and try to identify something that's bubbling up - that can be different viral facebook pages, reddit, whatever... there are a few different ways, but basically you constantly ping and scrape and try to identify stuff that's going viral as early as possible.

Once you've done that, you have an automated script that downloads the video and uploads it to your Facebook page or scrapes the content and throws it on your wordpress site with a really weak "link back" to the original content. You build up a Facebook page that has a few million likes, cover your wordpress pages in ads, and profit. It's not incredibly difficult to create an automated-if-unethical Buzzfeed.

It's incredible to watch one viral post or video spread throughout the web. It spreads out on different sites and platforms as quickly as it spreads on social media. Few end users really care what the original source was (especially since it's usually click-baity BS anyway), and the winners are the ones who can find the content the quickest and have the biggest reach.

I talked to a guy a couple of days ago who is making $60,000/month using this exact process, and has very little programming ability. He is, however, an absolutely shrewd and ruthless marketer with no ethical qualms about much of anything.

The content producers send him DMCA requests on occasion, and when that happens he or Facebook takes it down. But that's just a cost of doing business, and 95% of the content stolen never sees a DMCA request, so who cares? (Assuming you have no ethical compass). Content creators aren't constantly searching and scraping and trying to find other places where their content is hosted. That's hard enough to do on one platform alone (i.e. YouTube), let alone monitoring other platforms (Facebook) and a bunch of wordpress sites.

It's a game of content creators vs. "marketers."

It gets even more difficult for the content creators as the "marketers" get smarter - heighten the pitch of a video a little bit so sound matching software can't find it, reverse the video and choose different thumbnails so reverse image/video searches don't find it, spin the text content (visitors aren't really there for the great writing anyway), and you beat the vast majority of software. It's up to the individual content creators to play the same game Google is playing to kill the spammers, which is not their core competency. Unless Facebook does something on its own platform, this won't change. And even if they do, the best spammers will continue to outsmart the system.

The only way Facebook (and the content creators) win is if it becomes a core competency, much the same way defeating spam is for Google. I still know guys who can beat Google, but the level of sophistication is high enough that 99% of people can't keep up.

There are a few simple ways you can beat the vast majority of the content theft though; if anyone is interested feel free to email me and I'll point out some of the breadcrumbs the marketers leave behind.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#38
post #5

It sounds to me like part of the problem is that the people making popular videos don't share them on facebook themselves, which results in the modern internet native's primary reaction to media being unavailable in their preferred venue and at their preferred comfortability level: Piracy. Sure, you can fight back by appealing to the public about facebook's evility, or by spending lots of resources in legal action. O…

Let's say a video maker did create a Facebook page, and loaded all their videos onto it. That does not solve the problem, because Facebook is not an open, search-based system the way YouTube is. Facebook users will only see it in their NewsFeed if it is posted by a page they are following, or engaged with by a friend.

YouTube has a system to recognize copies of known videos, so they can prioritize the original video when they serve search results, or recommended videos. This allows them to soak up the demand for a particular video, and direct it at the appropriate copy (the one uploaded by the video's creator).

Until Facebook has a similar system, multiple copies of a single video can exist within Facebook and potentially never cross paths, since propagation depends on the local shape of the social graph, and how EdgeRank moves content through it.

That means that even if a video creator uploads their own video to Facebook, they can't soak up all the demand for it.

As the guy in the article says, the only way for him to become aware of a copy is if it lands in the NewsFeed of one of his fans. Whereas on YouTube, anyone can search for any title, and Content ID also finds matches.

edit: additions and clarity

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#39

This is super interesting - it seems like facebook's more likely to get away with it too because the people being ripped off are smaller independent YouTube Channels. It seems like YouTube's main incentive to build out copyright infringement tools was all of the record labels that had songs being uploaded and re-uploaded on the platform. I can see YouTube getting really aggressive in fighting FB on this legally, beca…

The content producers should file DMCA notices with the hosts if they don't want their content there. It seems like it would be in the interest of producers to register their works in well-known repositories so that viewers can have a high degree of confidence that the content they are viewing has the claimed provenance.

> The content producers should file DMCA notices with the hosts if they don't want their content there.

If you even know it's there. Is a Facebook video with a million view likely to cross your particular feed? Especially if it's in another country? Especially if someone took pains to remove identifying characteristics?

> It seems like it would be in the interest of producers to register their works in well-known repositories

YouTube seems like a pretty well known repository to me ...

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#40
post #15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would those videos monetize for the author when posted on Facebook? The article says Facebook's ad revenue sharing is in the works but not quite there yet .

Probably not directly at the moment, but they could do something similar to what the people who are ripping them off are doing: create a FB page for exposure, and hope that exposure turns into views on their YouTube channel.

But why should I go watch the video on YouTube when I just watched it on Facebook? Even better, the Facebook video doesn't have ads.
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