271–280 of 350 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
A constitution under which it is illegal to fire state workers unless by law!
Unless by law? Well, at least that one isn't a problem for a government.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry, but in which way did Greece not get some 300 billion euros? Whether they first borrowed that money from private banks and then the rest of the eurozone paid back the banks for Greece or whether they received the money directly from the other eurozone countries, the end result is still that banks now have roughly as much as before (modulo minor interests etc.), Greece has some 300 billion more and the rest of t…
As well as ignoring the banks culpability here, you're doing the same thing the original starter of this thread wanted to point out. Greece is a country, not a person. Did all Greeks benefit equally from that money? Or is large amounts of it sitting in accounts of corrupt politicians and the corporations (not necessarily Greek ones) that the money got spent on. I've seen accusations that the high military spending go…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
When Greece borrowed money, it was sustainable. Their GDP was growing, in large part because the European economy was growing before the crisis. When the European and world economy went down, it dragged Greece with them. The debt became unsustainable. Instead of the creditors losing out (much as an investor or normal creditor would when they invest in something that loses), the Europeans decided to bail out the initi…
This is a super important point. One that needs to come into the debate in Germany more. Greece may have been run by a ridiculously irresponsible government (and electorate), but it was the troika (Germany, mostly) put the fallout on the German (and EU) public's tab. That was and is a debt guaranteed to go bad.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
What really gets me going is how "we" helped the banks fill their coffers and socialize the losses. Again. Lending Greece money went along with earning (comparably) a lot of interest exactly because of the high (perceived) threat of Greece defaulting. And now that it has (nearly) come to that, all the risk has been moved to the EZB, etc. I called my local elected representative about it, SPD (social democrat), and "v…
> I called my local elected representative about it, SPD (social democrat), and "voiced my concern", but only got met with talk about chain reactions and responsibility. Perhaps I shouldn't have shouted. I think the problem is, that nobody really knows what had happened if we've let the banks die. The fear that the results might be a lot worse than the current situation is perhaps the driving force of politics of the…
There's one way in which Picketty is right: it's impossible to force a country to repay their debt. After WW1 France tried first through international (England) enforcement bodies, and then ultimately by occupation of the Ruhr valley (Germany's most productive region then). Both approaches failed. Eventually the Weimar inflated their currency until the French debt was worth nothing, workers in the Ruhr valley striked…
If you are willing to accept payment in land, it's quite easy.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
How would you define austerity for the Greece? To have public spending at 58% of GDP?
I'd define it as me paying 90% taxes last year, while my country is still getting worse.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
What really gets me going is how "we" helped the banks fill their coffers and socialize the losses. Again. Lending Greece money went along with earning (comparably) a lot of interest exactly because of the high (perceived) threat of Greece defaulting. And now that it has (nearly) come to that, all the risk has been moved to the EZB, etc. I called my local elected representative about it, SPD (social democrat), and "v…
> I called my local elected representative about it, SPD (social democrat), and "voiced my concern", but only got met with talk about chain reactions and responsibility. Perhaps I shouldn't have shouted. I think the problem is, that nobody really knows what had happened if we've let the banks die. The fear that the results might be a lot worse than the current situation is perhaps the driving force of politics of the…
I'm not even an economist, so obviously I have no idea what would have happened (even as is in "they don't really know" but I know even less).
My reasoning is this: if I remember correctly Greek government bonds were already trading at ~70% of their nominal values two or even three years ago (cannot check, currently on a train along the Rhine with very limited internet access). To me this means, that the banks had already written off ~30 of the value of that bonds, and I bet if we look at their balance sheets we'll see that fact reflected.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you go from "tax on private wealth" to "tax on the poor"?
Inflation always hits the non-rich the hardest. The rich have countless options for avoiding inflation. Those that are primarily wage dependent, do not. This is why the wealth gap has expanded so much in the US the last 15 years: the abuse levied on the dollar. Take a look at how nearly every single thing priced in dollars zoomed after 2001, including the GDP of every nation on earth and commodities - all went up sim…
Over a time scale of generations the wealth gap is controlled by larger social/taxation/etc questions. (For one example, in the US more public money is spent educating a rich student than a poor one) However, in the shorter day-to-day or year-to-year time scales it's mostly just a reflection of equity values. The rich have a lot of their money in equities and the poor have none. If at the closing bell the stock markets are up then the wealth gap just increased that day; if they're down it has shrunk.
The "dollar losing value" argument is silly. The opponents of loose monetary policy (and especially gold bugs and bitcoin fanboys) have been predicting sky-high inflation. When it didn't show up on cue their line morphed into this wishy-washy claim that inflation is somehow secretly high. Believe me, when inflation is high its not a secret.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a good point, but the obvious next Google search suggests that Greece's economic growth was unspectacular during the early 00s, and began lagging in '06.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/gdp Greece's GDP nearly tripled from 2000 to 2008. Their debt to GDP was comparable to other European nations until 2008 (105% of GDP).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I called my local elected representative about it, SPD (social democrat), and "voiced my concern", but only got met with talk about chain reactions and responsibility. Perhaps I shouldn't have shouted. I think the problem is, that nobody really knows what had happened if we've let the banks die. The fear that the results might be a lot worse than the current situation is perhaps the driving force of politics of the…
If the banks were going to default without taxpayer help, why didn't we just nationalize them and let the share holders take the loss they themselves have set themselves up for? Then we could shoulder the cost of getting the banks afloat again, and then subsequently regain some of the cost at least by selling them (instead of just giving taxpayer money to the risk-taking share holders like we do now)
That sounds a bit like only risk-taking share holders would have been harmed and that wouldn't be much harm for the society at all.
I really don't think that the harm would be that focused, because banks aren't only about risk-taking share holders and because of the interconnection of banks at the end someone might be harmed you've never thought about.
I really don't envy any politician having to make a decision in such a case.