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This Industry is Fucked

blog.jessfraz.com

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Re: This Industry is Fucked

#191

Post by shykes »

delcypher wrote: post #173
shykes wrote: post #149

I am a colleague of Jess, and have witnessed her dealing with this ordeal. She is a badass and doesn't need anyone to speak on her behalf. But some aspects of her experience are relevant to all of us and we have to talk about it. 1. If this is happening to you and you haven't spoken to anyone about it - please do. There is a specialized support group at https://www.crashoverridenetwork.net . Even if you feel you can…

Doesn't look like it's been mentioned yet but there is very related project called Online Abuse Prevention Initiative (OAPI http://onlineabuseprevention.org/ ). It would be a good idea to talk to them in addition to what you are already doing. It was covered on FLOSSWeekly earlier this year ( https://soundcloud.com/twit/floss-weekly-331-oapi ).

Noted, thank you!

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#192

Post by shockzzz »

brickmort wrote: post #148
shockzzz wrote: post #108

The reason why "trolls gonn' troll" isn't an acceptable excuse is that straight white men don't get told that people are jerking off to their conference talks. Just google "Kathy Sierra" and see why.

just wondering... why are you singling out only white males? I'm a non-white male.

Same reason I mentioned sexual orientation - they factor into how people are treated. And yes, different permutations are affected in their own unique ways as well.

For the record, I am also a non-white male.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#193

Post by JesperRavn »

zallen wrote: post #190
JesperRavn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked my only female coworker about this, and she said she had never experienced sexual harassment, and found tech culture tame compared with finance, where people would shout at programmers over the phone if things went wrong. Just one data point.

You do realize that finance is one of the worst places for representation of women and is recognized as a cesspit? ( http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0316/072_terminated_women.... ). It's wonderful that your friend has had positive experiences throughout her career.

She never said finance was sexist, only that people were rude in general. I'm not making any claims myself, only relating the experience of a colleague.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#194

Post by codybrown »

shykes wrote: post #149

I am a colleague of Jess, and have witnessed her dealing with this ordeal. She is a badass and doesn't need anyone to speak on her behalf. But some aspects of her experience are relevant to all of us and we have to talk about it. 1. If this is happening to you and you haven't spoken to anyone about it - please do. There is a specialized support group at https://www.crashoverridenetwork.net . Even if you feel you can…

Sometimes I wish I could save all of my upvotes then use them on a comment like yours. Thank you. This point of view is so sorely needed on HN.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#195

Post by shoeluckpotland »

shykes wrote: post #191
delcypher wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't look like it's been mentioned yet but there is very related project called Online Abuse Prevention Initiative (OAPI http://onlineabuseprevention.org/ ). It would be a good idea to talk to them in addition to what you are already doing. It was covered on FLOSSWeekly earlier this year ( https://soundcloud.com/twit/floss-weekly-331-oapi ).

Noted, thank you!

Just so you know, the OAPI is run by Randi Harper, who herself has harassed many people. Most notably Vivek Wadhwa and Claire Schumann, but there are more names on that list.

I wish you luck in tracking down the guilty parties. Threats are not okay, no matter who makes them.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#196

Post by chroma »

delcypher wrote: post #173
shykes wrote: post #149

I am a colleague of Jess, and have witnessed her dealing with this ordeal. She is a badass and doesn't need anyone to speak on her behalf. But some aspects of her experience are relevant to all of us and we have to talk about it. 1. If this is happening to you and you haven't spoken to anyone about it - please do. There is a specialized support group at https://www.crashoverridenetwork.net . Even if you feel you can…

Doesn't look like it's been mentioned yet but there is very related project called Online Abuse Prevention Initiative (OAPI http://onlineabuseprevention.org/ ). It would be a good idea to talk to them in addition to what you are already doing. It was covered on FLOSSWeekly earlier this year ( https://soundcloud.com/twit/floss-weekly-331-oapi ).

I would strongly advise against backing OAPI. The CEO & founder is Randi Harper. Her online persona is quite hostile, and she is often the instigator of online harassment. One of my acquaintances was the target of her ire. Her e-mails and call-outs eventually caused him to seek psychiatric help, including medication.

So while I support the goal of OAPI, I think the founding members have attitudes that hurt the cause more than help it. I wish there was an organization I could recommend instead, but so far I haven't found anything. If anyone knows of alternatives, I'm all ears.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#197

Post by snowwrestler »

corysama wrote: post #147
aaronem wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're thinking about Something Awful around 2005, or 4chan's /b/ in 2007 or so. That's not what we're seeing. While I'm hardly a rigorous ethnographer of the Internet's cesspits, my (often firsthand) observations suggest that "for the lulz" was never as significant a motivation as it was made out to be, and it's less so now than then. Too, trolling "for the lulz" tends to show a pretty typical pattern of high intens…

Maybe I'm wrong. Since I got bored of 4chan, I've only seen trolls when they're being well fed --such as right now. I guess it comes down to: Which is most likely to be the more prevalent source of the problem? A) There is a small, but significant population of men in technology who aggressively harass prominent women in tech and they do it primarily because they want to actively work against the growth of female par…

It is A, as the responses above, and hundreds of blog posts and similar discussions have made clear. There are big disparities in the gender balance, specifity, longevity, and personal nature of the attacks. And it happens to women who are not prominent in any sense of the word.

I think you want it to be B, because you don't want to believe it's A. But it is definitely A.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#198

Post by marcus_holmes »

TTPrograms wrote: post #155
marcus_holmes wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not so much grouping internet trolls with the tech industry, but that the tech industry is having a problem with its troll population. This might be purely because we're the first out of the trenches... we got the first trolls because we were the first to adopt online communication, and we have the first gamergate because we're still ahead of other industries/communities. I think we need to associate this sort o…

>we as an industry troll our women and minorities Is one person enough to blame the entire industry? Or two? Perhaps 10% of the industry is trolling women and minorities. Is there any evidence of that level of participation? >In order to "un-fuck" this industry, we do need to accept that we do this. This sort of ultimatum is exactly the thing that promotes hostility against confronting these issues. If somebody wants…

OK, fair point. So you don't like taking blame for other people's bad actions, even if those others are part of your community. I get that. We're also having that discussion around Islam too.

But to my mind, this is what makes a community a community. If good things happen we all share credit, so when bad things happen we all share blame. We, collectively, respond to events together. And we police ourselves, which is a form of taking responsibility as a community for the actions of a minority of our members.

So yes, if one of us behaves like an asshole then we as a community take responsibility for that, deal with the asshole, and apologise to the victim.

However, if one of us behaves like an asshole, and we as a community shrug our shoulders and say "not our problem, some people are just assholes" then other communities do have a right to say that we condone it, that we are at fault, that we as a community are behaving badly.

That's how I see it anyway, and why I think we need to accept responsibility.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#199

Post by thaJeztah »

shykes wrote: post #149

I am a colleague of Jess, and have witnessed her dealing with this ordeal. She is a badass and doesn't need anyone to speak on her behalf. But some aspects of her experience are relevant to all of us and we have to talk about it. 1. If this is happening to you and you haven't spoken to anyone about it - please do. There is a specialized support group at https://www.crashoverridenetwork.net . Even if you feel you can…

Thanks so much for writing this up. Happy to help getting those shirts out. Let me know if there's any way I can help out, with the shirts, or any other way. This just has to stop.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#200

Post by [deleted] »

chroma wrote: post #196
delcypher wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't look like it's been mentioned yet but there is very related project called Online Abuse Prevention Initiative (OAPI http://onlineabuseprevention.org/ ). It would be a good idea to talk to them in addition to what you are already doing. It was covered on FLOSSWeekly earlier this year ( https://soundcloud.com/twit/floss-weekly-331-oapi ).

I would strongly advise against backing OAPI. The CEO & founder is Randi Harper. Her online persona is quite hostile, and she is often the instigator of online harassment. One of my acquaintances was the target of her ire. Her e-mails and call-outs eventually caused him to seek psychiatric help, including medication. So while I support the goal of OAPI, I think the founding members have attitudes that hurt the cause…

[deleted]
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