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This Industry is Fucked

blog.jessfraz.com

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151–160 of 311 posts

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#151

Post by generic_user »

wpietri wrote: post #137
generic_user wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sure, maybe not everyone in the industry is an arsehole. But enough people are, and those people are vocal enough, that a significant number of people feel disgusted and threatened. That should be enough to tell you that even if the majority are lovely people, the industry as a whole still has a problem. There is not one "person in this industry" that was named or identified here. To project that anonymous internet…

This is a strongly gendered phenomenon. Prominent women in tech have an entirely different experience than prominent men in tech. (This is mostly true for non-prominent people as well.) This comes up over and over and over. But by all means keep clouding the issue in hopes of not having to talk about it.

The conversation that can be had is about slander and false accusations leveled against the tech industry as a whole. And the motivations of those who propagate such narratives. There has been no connection established between said emails and the "tech industry".

The implication that only girls get nasty emails on the internet and they obviously come from the "Assholes in the tech industry" is childish, not credible.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#152

Post by shykes »

wpietri wrote: post #137
generic_user wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sure, maybe not everyone in the industry is an arsehole. But enough people are, and those people are vocal enough, that a significant number of people feel disgusted and threatened. That should be enough to tell you that even if the majority are lovely people, the industry as a whole still has a problem. There is not one "person in this industry" that was named or identified here. To project that anonymous internet…

This is a strongly gendered phenomenon. Prominent women in tech have an entirely different experience than prominent men in tech. (This is mostly true for non-prominent people as well.) This comes up over and over and over. But by all means keep clouding the issue in hopes of not having to talk about it.

I meant to upvote you but accidentally downvoted,sorry! I strongly agree that this is a gendered phenomenon.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#153

Post by throwaway3880 »

I used to engage to in this sort of behavior to some extent. I grew up with a repressed sexuality and no knowledge of how to relate to women. Then, I suffered endless social rejection. I spent all my time in front of computers, and got good at programming.

We need to educate people (1) How to relate to other, respectfully (2) How to get over their anger (3) Tell them this behavior is unacceptable

Tech has many misfits. There are many guys, who've spent their lives in front of computer screens, and haven't developed healthy ways of relating to other people. Yet, they can still be great at technology with the power that brings.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#154

Post by TTPrograms »

alaroldai wrote: post #113
TTPrograms wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That should be enough to tell you that even if the majority are lovely people, the industry as a whole still has a problem. Is that really the case, though? If there's a violent criminal in a town, does the town as a whole have problem? Is the whole town to blame for the acts of that individual? We should do what we can to stop this sort of abuse and make things better, but why do we have to spend so much time alloc…

If we're doing what we can to stop this sort of abuse, there's nothing to blame us for. If we're spending our time trying to sweep these issues under the rug, maybe there is.

I don't think refusing to take blame for the acts of others is sweeping anything under the rug.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#155

Post by TTPrograms »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #141
TTPrograms wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've sort of thought that this was a fairly consistent phenomenon since the origin of the internet, and that as more and more people come online they've been exposed to it and don't think it's reasonable. And to some extent they're right - it's not reasonable. Unfortunately being a public figure, especially by critiquing that phenomena, is going to attract more of that abuse. It pains me to see people call that sort…

It's not so much grouping internet trolls with the tech industry, but that the tech industry is having a problem with its troll population. This might be purely because we're the first out of the trenches... we got the first trolls because we were the first to adopt online communication, and we have the first gamergate because we're still ahead of other industries/communities. I think we need to associate this sort o…

>we as an industry troll our women and minorities

Is one person enough to blame the entire industry? Or two? Perhaps 10% of the industry is trolling women and minorities. Is there any evidence of that level of participation?

>In order to "un-fuck" this industry, we do need to accept that we do this.

This sort of ultimatum is exactly the thing that promotes hostility against confronting these issues. If somebody wants to help, why do they also have to take blame? It actively turns people away who refuse to take that blame. It makes no sense.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#156

Post by vonklaus »

shykes wrote: post #149

I am a colleague of Jess, and have witnessed her dealing with this ordeal. She is a badass and doesn't need anyone to speak on her behalf. But some aspects of her experience are relevant to all of us and we have to talk about it. 1. If this is happening to you and you haven't spoken to anyone about it - please do. There is a specialized support group at https://www.crashoverridenetwork.net . Even if you feel you can…

> You are not voicing a valid opinion

I'm not sure how an opinion could be invalid? Maybe to another, but obviously not to the person who has that opinion.

> asserting that gender has nothing to do with it

Of course it does in her case. I feel bad for her, and it totally sucks. However, this is what trolls do. They troll people for various illogical reasons.

> So let's fix it.

I am not trying to be rude, but this is so naive it is painful. You can't do anything to stop trolls online, especially intelligent technically proficient ones. You can behave respectfully and enforce societal norms in your own office and daily life. That is all you can do. Be a good person in real life and hold people to a reasonable standard.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#157

Post by tzs »

Several thoughts, some reasonable and some probably stupid, split into separate comments so the reasonable parts can be discussed and the stupid parts torn apart separately:

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#158

Post by [deleted] »

tzs wrote: post #157

Several thoughts, some reasonable and some probably stupid, split into separate comments so the reasonable parts can be discussed and the stupid parts torn apart separately:

[deleted]

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#159

Post by shykes »

plorg wrote: post #123

Given the responses I see here, it seems pretty obvious that this is a 'problem with the industry' regardless of whether it's a problem with or that sprouts from the internet. It seems evident that Jess has experienced terrible things in the process of performing her job. That she would post so adamantly to her blog suggests that the problem is not going away, and she is probably not receiving much of a helpful respo…

Hi, I'm a colleague of Jess. I entirely agree with everything you said about the industry as a whole. My thoughts in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9836573

But you should know that her colleagues (me included) take this super seriously, and so does our employer. We are doing everything we can to support her, and to make the attacks stop. We also want to contribute to fixing the problem beyond this one instance, and are looking for the best way to do that. If you have ideas I would love to hear them!

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#160

Post by [deleted] »

tzs wrote: post #157

Several thoughts, some reasonable and some probably stupid, split into separate comments so the reasonable parts can be discussed and the stupid parts torn apart separately:

[deleted]
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