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Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

nytimes.com

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Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#111

Post by mkr-hn »

hackuser wrote: post #100
mkr-hn wrote: post #17

For me and a lot of friends and family, marriage equality. Yay. "It is now clear that the challenged laws burden the liberty of same-sex couples, and it must be further acknowledged that they abridge central precepts of equality . . . Especially against a long history of disapproval of their relationships, this denial to same-sex couples of the right to marry works a grave and continuing harm. The imposition of this…

> opinion also reasserted that people who are really mad about this can continue to be mad and vocal about it, as guaranteed by the First Amendment Was this a question? I don't think I've heard anyone ever say otherwise. I'll add though, that people long have cloaked oppression in religion. People justified (and still justify) slavery, segregation, and oppression of women under the guise of religion, for example. Som…

There's been a dull hum of religious conservatives worrying about consequences like this ever since the 2013 ruling.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#112

Post by malkia »

"No union is more profound than marriage, for it embodies the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice, and family. In forming a marital union, two people become something greater than once they were. As some of the petitioners in these cases demonstrate, marriage embodies a love that may endure even past death. It would misunderstand these men and women to say they disrespect the idea of marriage. Their plea is that they do respect it, respect it so deeply that they seek to find its fulfillment for themselves. Their hope is not to be condemned to live in loneliness, excluded from one of civilization’s oldest institutions. They ask for equal dignity in the eyes of the law. The Constitution grants them that right."

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#113

Post by masklinn »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #69
plg wrote: post #45

Can we finally stop calling it "gay marriage" and "traditional marriage" and just call it "marriage" now? good job USA I'm glad you are finally catching up to the rest of the developed world.

>I'm glad you are finally catching up to the rest of the developed world. What fraction of the developed world had gay marriage, at what time, such that this statement makes sense? I mean, Massachusetts legalized gay marriage in, what, 2003?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage#Timeline

2001 — Netherlands

2001 — Belgium

2005 — Spain, Canada

2006 — South Africa

2009 — Norway, Sweden

2010 — Portugal, Iceland, Argentina

2012 — Denmark

2013 — France, Brazil, Uruguay, New Zealand

2014 — England and Wales

2015 — Luxembourg, Ireland, United States of America

2017 — Finland (the law is voted and signed but not yet in effect)

> I mean, Massachusetts legalized gay marriage in, what, 2003?

It's a good point but not without issues to wit the possibility of discontinuation or invalidation (California, Australian Capital Territory) and the fact that subdivision-level generally lacks many (or even most) of the protections and advantages normally granted (not to mention commonly a complete loss of recognition and attendant rights on moving outside the sub-territory)

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#114

Post by pjc50 »

hackuser wrote: post #100
mkr-hn wrote: post #17

For me and a lot of friends and family, marriage equality. Yay. "It is now clear that the challenged laws burden the liberty of same-sex couples, and it must be further acknowledged that they abridge central precepts of equality . . . Especially against a long history of disapproval of their relationships, this denial to same-sex couples of the right to marry works a grave and continuing harm. The imposition of this…

> opinion also reasserted that people who are really mad about this can continue to be mad and vocal about it, as guaranteed by the First Amendment Was this a question? I don't think I've heard anyone ever say otherwise. I'll add though, that people long have cloaked oppression in religion. People justified (and still justify) slavery, segregation, and oppression of women under the guise of religion, for example. Som…

There are quite a lot of people who argued that changing the definition of marriage was an infringement of their religious rights. I've never been clear on how that was supposed to happen but maybe you can dig it out of the oral arguments.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#116

Post by taytus »

aedocw wrote: post #98
taytus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dave Chappelle is a comedian, they say stuff like that all the time, it's part of their job. If you are going to quote somebody (specially on these issues), I'd recommend not to quote a comedian.

Quoting a comedian as a means of reflecting what's popular or at least socially acceptable is an appropriate and accurate way to say "at one point in recent history, it was socially acceptable to say demeaning things about gay people." Michael Richards is a comedian, and made anti-Semitic remarks that resulted in a significant backlash. Again, looking back this is a good indication of someone saying something that wa…

I think it all depends on the context. A comedy show is a comedy show. People are always looking for ways to feel offended.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#117

Post by smackfu »

plg wrote: post #45

Can we finally stop calling it "gay marriage" and "traditional marriage" and just call it "marriage" now? good job USA I'm glad you are finally catching up to the rest of the developed world.

>the rest of the developed world.

Some countries where gay marriage is illegal: Germany, Italy, Australia, Japan, Austria, Switzerland, Greece.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#118

Post by peteretep »

rfrey wrote: post #71
tptacek wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get the tl;dr summary of Scalia's dissent; actually read it. Scalia is obnoxious and mean-spirited (and in fine form this time), but he's a really good writer, the fun- to- read kind. IIRC, he wrote a book on writing with Brian Garner, of usage dictionary fame.

I respect Scalia as a scholar and philosopher. But I couldn't find anything in his dissent that couldn't equally apply to desegregation.

Scalia is like reading The Spectator. Well-argued, cogent, urbane, but wrong.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#119

Post by evgen »

giarc wrote: post #59
Liquix wrote: post #11

"A recent Gallup poll found that 60 percent of Americans – an all-time high – support extending the same rights and privileges to same-sex marriages as traditional ones." only 60% of US citizens support same-sex marraige? in my area it is more like 90-95%, this was surprising and sad for me to hear

When you say "in my area it is more like 90-95%" are you referring to your perceived thoughts on what the rate would be, or are you referring to an actual poll? If the former, than your area is probably not 90-95%, your social community is 90-95%. People tend to surround themselves with people with similar views. So it seems like in your town everyone is for gay marriage, when in fact it's the people in your town tha…

An additional factor is that opposition to gay marriage is heavily skewed toward the elderly. I doubt the OP has a large social circle among the medicare crowd, but that is where the pool of opposition remains the strongest. We are just going to have to wait for them to die off.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#120

Post by bdcravens »

troycarlson wrote: post #3

Hopefully this whole "issue" will just go away soon...so many more important things that deserve the public's attention. Edit: To clarify, I support marriage equality and believe this is great news that deserves celebrating.

As a straight Christian who isn't against gay marriage, I agree, but I know the energy that the "church" puts into opposing it is why it as required this much energy. There are so many issues deserving of the church's time and energy (divorce rates, addiction, child trafficking, etc) yet too many are stuck on this one.
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