If we censor history how do we learn from it as a society? By giving nazi, confederate or any other problematic symbology special status as something too terrible to even gaze upon we elevate it to something almost suprahuman, and we forget that these atrocities were perpetrated by humans for the most part just like us. It makes those dark times just that bit more likely to come to pass again. This is small minded, unethical and irresponsible of Apple.
Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag
71–80 of 84 posts
Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag
#72It seems like one of those silly things that happen when a bored drone in a bureaucracy blindly applies rules passed down from on high. I would expect a decision reversal pretty soon.
This is clearly a bug in Apple's internal policy stemming from an edge-case that wasn't considered while drafting it. Or whoever made the banning decision didn't closely read the "Exceptions to this rule" part of the policy (if it exists)
Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
This analogy fails, imo. From the Strafgesetzbuch sec. 86a: >> Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. I'm no lawyer, and know almost nothing about German law, but this wording would appear to preserv…
then we can argue if the game has civil enlightenment purposes. Let's put it this way, if the game allows the south to 'win' then its fairly close to not meeting that standard. The reason is because it also serves the purpose of providing alternative fantasies to those who wish to imagine the continuation of southern institutional racism.
That's an interesting argument, but the statute also included an exception for art, and I think we can agree that the definition of art is broad, and has no requirement for telling the truth about history.
Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag
#74It's like Someone flashed the bat sign and suddenly every single major institution in America implements a policy in less than a week that could have been implemented at any time over the last 150 years. Weird...
Could it have been implemented at any time in the past 150 years? I rather doubt it.
What we're seeing is that the pressure on institutions to conform to social norms in this specific area has exceeded the critical value required for change. Institutions that do not at least passively make this change in policy are at high risk for losing legitimacy.
The thing is, the confederate battle flag was not as charged of a symbol in the first 75 years after the armistice was signed at Appomattox. It gained relevance in the post-war years as a response to the civil-rights movement.
That the change now happens so rapidly and so quickly can be directly attributed to the speed at which social consensus can change and crystallize due to the new communication technologies that we have.
But the real question that a lot of people are actively working on in relation to this is "How do you manage and steer political legitimacy in the current environment?"
Also remember that the flag in question is merely a symbol and that banning it does very little to reduce the racism and violence that claims it as a standard. This doesn't fix systematic oppression, economic disenfranchisement or the fact that most of the political power remains with a group that is overwhelmingly white, male and dedicated to the continuance of an unsustainable economic system that will surely destroy the ecosystem we rely on if we don't fix it soon.
Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there any evidence that censorship in Germany has really prevented racism?
They don't have half their country driving around with swastikas painted on their pickup trucks, so they would certainly seem to be doing better than we are...
Neither does the US...
Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
For what it's worth, the people of the city of Charleston is responding to the tragedy about as beautifully as anybody could ask. Everybody outside of the state seems to be on the other end of the spectrum at the moment. Outside groups are actively driving in to try to stir things up and the people at AME have been calmly singing them away. It's been amazing to watch. You have a big chunk of the country that seems li…
Yes, it is really the popular reaction across the country that I am referring to. I don't personally condone banning symbols, but at the same time I think that, historically speaking, if you've been able to fly the flag of a failed rebellion over your capitol for any significant period of time that is pretty liberal on behalf of the winner of said rebellion. Wherever you come down on that, the flag is certainly besid…
There are very people remaining claiming it's not time to take it down. People get defensive about it because most of them take pride in being from the south and that was the most applicable symbol to represent the whole region. It got even more popular with the Dukes of Hazzard. For people like that, they get defensive when people accuse them of racism when nothing could be further from the truth. They aren't thinking "racist flag" they're thinking "southern flag".
On the other hand, it means something all together different for a lot of other people and once people really got that through their heads, there was no question it needed to come down. Very few people are defending keeping it where it is at this point.
Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag
#77I sure am glad that I use operating systems whose software isn't strictly controlled by a single corporation. How anyone can continue to defend Apple's draconian policies is beyond me.
As a developer, I'm more happy with Apple's closed ecosystem than with Google's 95% piracy rates. I'm not an Apple fanboy though.
Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, it is really the popular reaction across the country that I am referring to. I don't personally condone banning symbols, but at the same time I think that, historically speaking, if you've been able to fly the flag of a failed rebellion over your capitol for any significant period of time that is pretty liberal on behalf of the winner of said rebellion. Wherever you come down on that, the flag is certainly besid…
Not to mention a failed rebellion that was deliberately formed to protect the economic institution of slavery! Symbols are important, and for great evils people at different times have decided to ban symbols. And it's time for this one to be banned. Don't think of this as a knee jerk reaction, this has been on the tables for a century. Finally now public sentiment has turned, and savvy politicians have put the phrase…
There's a lot of interesting reading on the subject. Each state had it's own reasons for secession. Slavery was a part of each but the significance varied dramatically by state. Here's a really interesting read I found on it while all of this was going on. In South Carolina at least, it does look like the states rights side of things was a much bigger factor.
http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/secession/
Robert E. Lee even called slavery a moral and political evil in a letter to his wife and speculated about how long it would take to be eliminated. Here's the 1856 letter.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/leepierce.html
With all this going on right now, researching what's out there from the various perspectives has been interesting.
Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag
#79Apple is not and should not be a political actor. More and more the United States has included corporate activities into the fold of law enforcement and legislation. A host of institutions called FDRCs exist in a public-private limbo - representing the interests of the state but inside the private world. NGOs - non-governmental organizations - are in fact very governmental. They are enumerated by the United States, m…
Could use an explanation for downvotes. Seems on topic to me.
Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
I only just heard about this "controversy" (I'm not even American) and decided to buy a confederate flag shirt for fun. I'm unable to find them on Amazon now - all searches come back with US flags. When I search online and find links to Amazon with such items, clicking through shows an error message/item removed. Am I just bad at searching or is this actually a thing? Hilarious. Edit: Holy shit, it's actually a thing…
Just get a Nazi Swastika shirt, those are fine.
I looked but I can only find peace swastikas. The only Nazi swastika I found is this one [1] which calls itself an "Anti Nazi" patch.
1: http://www.amazon.com/German-Miltary-T-shirt-Embroidered-Cos...