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Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

ultimategeneral.com

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Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#51
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence that censorship in Germany has really prevented racism?

They don't have half their country driving around with swastikas painted on their pickup trucks, so they would certainly seem to be doing better than we are...

Your comment implies that half the people in the US fly that flag and that everyone who flies the flag is a racist and that the fact that so many people fly it hasn't made it lose much of its meaning.

Your comment makes a lot of assumptions and appears to me to be painting half the country (probably the south) as racists. This is a bigoted narrow minded attitude.

Even Kanye West has a line of clothing with the confederate flag, do you think he's part of the KKK?

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#52
post #7

This is rather silly. What's next? Are we going to change the uniforms of Nazis in World War 2 games? Start putting "CENSORED" watermarks over the confederate flag in civil war themed movies? The flag shouldn't be flying on state buildings, but leave historically themed art and media out of this.

You might not be familiar with the German videogame marketplace. http://www.destructoid.com/see-how-wolfenstein-the-new-order...

That's all self-censoring. The law says use of such symbols is fine if it serves art², however the agency tasked with judging the youth impact of games does not think games are art. However, that's just their opinion and does not reflect actual legality, since this was never challenged in court.

So, until they change their opinion, or a game company decides it's worth it and takes them to court, game companies just end up censoring themselves in advance so they don't have to deal with it in the first place.

² As mentioned here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9777854 , it was for example fine in the movie Iron Sky.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#53
Apple is not and should not be a political actor.

More and more the United States has included corporate activities into the fold of law enforcement and legislation.

A host of institutions called FDRCs exist in a public-private limbo - representing the interests of the state but inside the private world.

NGOs - non-governmental organizations - are in fact very governmental. They are enumerated by the United States, many times funded nearly exclusively by them, and are often fronts for the CIA and other parts of the government.

The government will make causal reference to Civil Society in speeches. Civil Society is not you and I - Civil Society are organizations (many times funded again by those elements that flirt inside and outside of government boundary). For example George Soros funds huge numbers of Civil Society Organizations for US-aligned political purposes around the world.

The United States has discusses standards of corporate governance and responsibility under the expectation that its partnerships with international corporations overseas act as 'proxies' for US government inspired cultivation.

US corporations are allowed and encouraged to participate in the creation of legislature. Given the inevitable pass of TPA it's timely to mention US corporate input into the one of the largest and most important pieces of modern US foreign policy. Wall Street wrote a bill draft for the House to remove limitations on derivative trading (put in after the housing crisis) and the House passed their bill without altering it.

Private corporations draft and/or research most of our legislation. Washington think tanks are critical pieces in the legislative process.

Private corporations own the fourth estate of our government - there's a looong long history here to write about how this has been used for private profit.

The majority of NSA work (it was discovered) is outsourced to private corporations and much of our intelligence work is done by private intelligence corporations (Palantir, HB Gary Federal, Stratfor).

Our military uses Blackwater (now rebranded because of their human rights violations) a benefit being that if a private corporations commits war crimes - it isn't technically the US governments fault.

Issues like modern surveillance (revealed by Snowden) and propaganda are not performed by placing laws on corporations that they must follow, but by partnerships. Corporations are allowed to do things that government can not and vice versa. Both benefit when an exchange can be made.

But probably the easiest place to see the blur and partnership between the state and the corporate world is the Republic and Democratic parties and their Commission - which also runs the presidential debates. This institution (our political parties) themselves are, legally, in practice and by definition, a corporation.

I do not want Apple to be law enforcement or national security enforcement. I do not care if it is more efficient to have private citizens perform the function of public institutions.

Public institutions have limitations that private bodies do not.

This is on purpose. The limitations on governance were placed to ensure liberty.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#54
post #7

This is rather silly. What's next? Are we going to change the uniforms of Nazis in World War 2 games? Start putting "CENSORED" watermarks over the confederate flag in civil war themed movies? The flag shouldn't be flying on state buildings, but leave historically themed art and media out of this.

You might not be familiar with the German videogame marketplace. http://www.destructoid.com/see-how-wolfenstein-the-new-order...

Imagine if neo-nazis started adopting that made-up Wolfenstein logo as their own...

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#55
post #29

"Spielberg’s "Schindler's List" did not try to amend his movie to look more comfortable. The historical "Gettysburg" movie (1993) is still on iTunes." It seems Apple has started down a slippery slope. Will they now remove any movie from iTunes that contains the image of a Confederate flag anywhere in the movie? It begs the question, is there any "fair use" of a Confederate flag, anywhere? Or is it now fully taboo? If…

> It seems Apple has started down a slippery slope. Is it really a slippery slope when they are simply exercising their existing rights as a private entity? > is there any "fair use" of a Confederate flag, anywhere? Anywhere individuals/private organizations want.

> Is it really a slippery slope when they are simply exercising their existing rights as a private entity?

Yes. Being a private entity has nothing to do with it.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#56

Not surprised that Apple is one of the first companies to censor something. If it appeases a large part of the population, even better. Now games can't show historically accurate events even if they want to. I'm in no way "supporting" the Confederate flag, just like if I support someone's free speech right even if he says something stupid or "offensive" doesn't mean I support that speech. But it's one thing to take d…

Most often, the confederate flag is not used in a historically accurate way.

That doesn't matter for his argument, though.

Sure the Confederate flag used today was the battle flag and not the flag of the union. I don't think people flying the flag really care about that. Flags are symbols and the south attempt at secession did rally under their military effort and flag.

Today the flag means something very different than what it did.

That happens all the time with flags.

But again, none of that matters for OPs argument.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#57
post #32
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While YOU may not see the flag as a racist symbol, I assure you that others do. The general term is called dog-whistle politics. Eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

I don't believe he was saying anything regarding whether or not he believes it is a racist symbol. He said, "I think games, documentaries and such are not showing the flag to be racist." Can a documentary portray the Civil War without automatically favoring the Confederates? Can a game allow you to play for either side? In either case, does it not make sense to show the Confederate flag to be more authentic? It's par…

except the issue at hand is modern games in the iOS app store, not documentary.

Banning the flag is about contemporary usage, not historical perspective.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#58
post #23

This seems stupid to me. It is one thing for a state government to fly that flag, it is a different thing for a private individual. (i.e. it is different when the police kill people and held unaccountable then when it is some nutjob.) I think games, documentaries and such are not showing the flag to be racist.

But in this case, Apple is (the equivalent of) the "private individual." They're free to do what they want with their app store.

And we're free to disapprove of that action. Especially given their relatively powerful position

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#60
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While YOU may not see the flag as a racist symbol, I assure you that others do. The general term is called dog-whistle politics. Eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

you seriously think a civil war game, or a historical documentary, are practicing dog whistle politics? Just because that's a thing that occurs doesn't mean that it's everywhere it could possibly be.

Don't deflect - lets talk only about civil war game. Forget documentaries they aren't part of the argument, they are just tossed in there for lazy argumentation sakes.

The issue is a game is trivially a propaganda piece and even if people are painting it as a historical thing, it is also a contemporary piece of art that speaks to people in different languages depending on who is listening.

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