Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

ultimategeneral.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 84 posts

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#61

Post by markbnj »

brightball wrote: post #36
markbnj wrote: post #14

Completely silly. I would like to see, just once in my life, our population respond to a tragedy with calm deliberation rather than knee-jerk reactionary tilting at windmills.

For what it's worth, the people of the city of Charleston is responding to the tragedy about as beautifully as anybody could ask. Everybody outside of the state seems to be on the other end of the spectrum at the moment. Outside groups are actively driving in to try to stir things up and the people at AME have been calmly singing them away. It's been amazing to watch. You have a big chunk of the country that seems li…

Yes, it is really the popular reaction across the country that I am referring to. I don't personally condone banning symbols, but at the same time I think that, historically speaking, if you've been able to fly the flag of a failed rebellion over your capitol for any significant period of time that is pretty liberal on behalf of the winner of said rebellion. Wherever you come down on that, the flag is certainly beside the point here.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#62

Post by MichaelGG »

jtgi8jgfdg wrote: post #39
kdamken wrote: post #7

This is rather silly. What's next? Are we going to change the uniforms of Nazis in World War 2 games? Start putting "CENSORED" watermarks over the confederate flag in civil war themed movies? The flag shouldn't be flying on state buildings, but leave historically themed art and media out of this.

Google Shopping just banned Confederate flags. However you can shop for Nazi flags.

I only just heard about this "controversy" (I'm not even American) and decided to buy a confederate flag shirt for fun. I'm unable to find them on Amazon now - all searches come back with US flags.

When I search online and find links to Amazon with such items, clicking through shows an error message/item removed.

Am I just bad at searching or is this actually a thing? Hilarious.

Edit: Holy shit, it's actually a thing; eBay too. When did Americans become so pro-censorship? I wish Amazon wasn't so critical to buying everything otherwise I'd cancel prime and drop them for being so moronic.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#63

Post by ryanobjc »

markbnj wrote: post #27
ryanobjc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really not unlike banning the nazi flag post WWII germany. The parallels are apt. Perhaps in time, the flag will lose its emotional charge but that isn't the case now.

This analogy fails, imo. From the Strafgesetzbuch sec. 86a: >> Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. I'm no lawyer, and know almost nothing about German law, but this wording would appear to preserv…

then we can argue if the game has civil enlightenment purposes.

Let's put it this way, if the game allows the south to 'win' then its fairly close to not meeting that standard. The reason is because it also serves the purpose of providing alternative fantasies to those who wish to imagine the continuation of southern institutional racism.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#64

Post by zxcvcxz »

davexunit wrote: post #25

I sure am glad that I use operating systems whose software isn't strictly controlled by a single corporation. How anyone can continue to defend Apple's draconian policies is beyond me.

They're against symbols of slavery but they don't mind paying slave wages and keeping their workers in slave like conditions.

Reminds me of this comic: http://i.imgur.com/NIWnZgu.jpg

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#65

Post by ryanobjc »

markbnj wrote: post #61
brightball wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, the people of the city of Charleston is responding to the tragedy about as beautifully as anybody could ask. Everybody outside of the state seems to be on the other end of the spectrum at the moment. Outside groups are actively driving in to try to stir things up and the people at AME have been calmly singing them away. It's been amazing to watch. You have a big chunk of the country that seems li…

Yes, it is really the popular reaction across the country that I am referring to. I don't personally condone banning symbols, but at the same time I think that, historically speaking, if you've been able to fly the flag of a failed rebellion over your capitol for any significant period of time that is pretty liberal on behalf of the winner of said rebellion. Wherever you come down on that, the flag is certainly besid…

Not to mention a failed rebellion that was deliberately formed to protect the economic institution of slavery!

Symbols are important, and for great evils people at different times have decided to ban symbols. And it's time for this one to be banned.

Don't think of this as a knee jerk reaction, this has been on the tables for a century. Finally now public sentiment has turned, and savvy politicians have put the phrase "never let a crisis go to waste" to good use.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#66

Post by justizin »

knodi123 wrote: post #12
ryanobjc wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While YOU may not see the flag as a racist symbol, I assure you that others do. The general term is called dog-whistle politics. Eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

you seriously think a civil war game, or a historical documentary, are practicing dog whistle politics? Just because that's a thing that occurs doesn't mean that it's everywhere it could possibly be.

Here's a question to that end: Can you play as the Confederate army?

I can certainly see a game that is a valuable teaching tool also being joyfully used by someone to imagine the south rising again, every day after working as a TSA agent.

While I wouldn't really hold the developer of such a game morally responsible, I think what people are missing out on here is that Apple doesn't want to participate in distributing a game that could be a PR disaster for them.

This actually fits rather well into Steve Jobs', "Freedom from porn" notion, that essentially the opportunity to play a civil war reenactment as the Confederate army is more or less equal to racist war porn.

In leftist politics, Apple often gets to stand in for the entire computer industry, so let's say this game were available on all platforms, at some point, someone is going to say, "And look at Apple, THEY still distribute video games that let people play as the confederate army!"

Even if you try to explain to a person with this position that, well, Google, Microsoft, Sony, and Valve all also distribute this game, you're unlikely to dent their argument. In this way, Apple's brand is constantly being eroded in political conversations that have little to do with them, and they may have some foresight that continuing to distribute this game would blow up in their face.

OR, even though all of that is true, they will decide to reverse this because it's a historically accurate teaching tool.

Time will tell.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#67

Post by zxcvcxz »

MichaelGG wrote: post #62
jtgi8jgfdg wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Shopping just banned Confederate flags. However you can shop for Nazi flags.

I only just heard about this "controversy" (I'm not even American) and decided to buy a confederate flag shirt for fun. I'm unable to find them on Amazon now - all searches come back with US flags. When I search online and find links to Amazon with such items, clicking through shows an error message/item removed. Am I just bad at searching or is this actually a thing? Hilarious. Edit: Holy shit, it's actually a thing…

Just get a Nazi Swastika shirt, those are fine.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#68

Post by justizin »

markbnj wrote: post #14

Completely silly. I would like to see, just once in my life, our population respond to a tragedy with calm deliberation rather than knee-jerk reactionary tilting at windmills.

What's silly is to say that a national movement to delegitimize a racist symbol which was actually REVIVED during the civil rights movement is knee-jerk reactionary tilting at windmills.

It's actually ridiculously fucking late. We have much bigger things to do to bridge racial divides but this elephant has been in the room for a while.

That said, and you can read my previous comment more focused on apple's decision, I think there is a possibility this is something they'll reverse.

If that's the case, and they removed a large amount of non-historical content in iTunes and the App Store which glorifies the confederate flag, and in the scuffle, for a short time, some historic works were mis-flagged, I think that's a reasonable price to pay.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#69

Post by justizin »

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

This seems stupid to me. It is one thing for a state government to fly that flag, it is a different thing for a private individual. (i.e. it is different when the police kill people and held unaccountable then when it is some nutjob.) I think games, documentaries and such are not showing the flag to be racist.

Let's chat later about why you believe that police who kill people are almost _ever_ held accountable.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#70

Post by wordbank »

davexunit wrote: post #25

I sure am glad that I use operating systems whose software isn't strictly controlled by a single corporation. How anyone can continue to defend Apple's draconian policies is beyond me.

As a developer, I'm more happy with Apple's closed ecosystem than with Google's 95% piracy rates.

I'm not an Apple fanboy though.

Post reply on HN