Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#171

Post by merpnderp » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 4:36 PM UTC

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #94

yequalsx wrote: post #76

Here is part of Mississippi's Declaration of Secession: "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the…

>The Confederate flag represents and evil institution The US flag represents slavery as well. We changed it to something more socially acceptable, but we moved it to the prisons, stocked it with racist laws, and to this day continue to profit off of forced labor. To say nothing of the slavery American countries profit off of by outsourcing. Of course, prison slavery isn't as bad. Instead of being born a slave if your…

The US flag represents a lot of things. For instance the country that declared war on, invaded, and then freed all the slaves in the country represented by the Confederate flag. At a cost of 3.5% of their population as war casualties and 2% of their population as war dead. Not to mention massive social, political and financial upheaval.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#172

Post by merpnderp » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 4:40 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #100

JohnGB wrote: post #9

So what about all WWII games that have a swastika, or any number of historical flags that are simply referencing history rather than supporting an ideal? This is plain ridiculous.

They might as well ban the Turkish flag too as that is a symbol of the genocide against Armenians --or the Soviet flag as it symbolizes the oppression of many nations and peoples by the soviet regime. And apple would cede, if the people affected made enough of a fuss, so this whole thing is more about perception and PR more than actual beliefs in justice, etc.

Doesn't the Soviet flag represent engineered famines that killed tens of millions? Certainly on par with the South's flag.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#173

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 4:40 PM UTC

Brendinooo wrote: post #131

yequalsx wrote: post #76

Here is part of Mississippi's Declaration of Secession: "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the…

I don't have a horse in this race - I'm a 'Northerner' who doesn't fly the Confederate flag and has never been a fan of people who do, but I never felt like it was my place to call others out. As such, I don't particularly take issue with the removal of the flag from public institutions. It's probably a good thing. However, I do take issue with narrow oversimplifications, and as such I would encourage you to do some…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#174

Post by merpnderp » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

snarfy wrote: post #12

Will they also remove WWII games with Nazi flags?

Why stop there? The Hammer and Sickle represent the slaughter and enslavement of tens of millions. The Chinese flag at one point represented normal people being forced to run small metal smelters in their backyards exposing them to the joys of heavy metal poisoning and rank air pollution (when they weren't being starved for political reasons).

We have a lot of flags left to ban!!!

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#175

Post by brobinson » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 4:53 PM UTC

onewaystreet wrote: post #95

mladenkovacevic wrote: post #78

The scariest thing is how fast sweeping and unanimous these acts of compliance are. It's like these companies just woke up suddenly, had a conference call and without a hint of discussion, analysis or feedback started enforcing moral revisionism. It reeks of dishonest, cheap PR. What's next on the agenda? The saddest part is that this has totally taken over the discussion of shootings in North Carolina. US is unique…

Because gun control is pretty much dead in the US. If 20 children being killed in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting wasn't enough to pass new legislation, 9 adults certainly wouldn't be. The flag has become an issue so politicians can be seen "doing something."

Sounds like an instance of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#176

Post by __z » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 4:54 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #169

__z wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech only applies to governments . Many people (not necessarily on HN) don't realize that.

Free speech is a value, not just a law. You can't just stamp out free speech any chance you get and then say you support free speech just because you're not the government.

You have zero idea what you are talking about.

I support free speech, but that doesn't mean I am going to allow the KKK to do their demonstrations on my front lawn because "free speech." Disallowing that is not "stamp[ing] out free speech." Not even in the slightest.

Its a two way street - they are free to do their cross burning elsewhere and I'm also free to put signs on my lawn that support racial harmony.

Walmart (or whoever) is free to decide they don't want to sell the Confederate flag. The Daughters of the Confederacy (or whoever) are free to decide they want to sell the Confederate flag. Neither is stamping out free speech. BOTH are practicing free speech.

Free speech (as a value) doesn't mean "I need to facilitate everyone else all the time, always and so does everyone else." Free speech (as a value) means "you let me say what I want and I let you say what you want." The KKK can do their own thing and American Atheists can do theirs.

I can choose to hold an atheist convention and disallow priests to speak. Priests can choose to hold Mass and not allow atheist to speech. Its each party's choice.

If some types of items are unpopular with the public (or unpopular with the people who choose what to sell) it is a business decision to not sell them in order to appeal to their chosen demographic. It is not "stamp[ing] out free speech." There are niche markets everywhere for items that don't appeal to the general public. Most companies you are hearing about (Walmart, Sears, Apple) are trying to appeal to the masses.

Being forced to support everything is the exact opposite of free speech.

Let's also distinguish "the law" from "the Constitution." They are different.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#177

Post by caryhartline » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 4:58 PM UTC

ccvannorman wrote: post #137

Apple has proven, time and again, that it heavily favors censorship in the name of profits. The real issue we should be talking about is the de-facto monopoly Apple has because of their hardware device success (e.g. iPhone), and how and when this monopoly will be prevented from censoring the speech and content of millions of lives. Or do we expect monopolistic censorship to be the new norm of the future? Disgusting.

Is it censorship in the name of profits when they make less money by taking apps off the App Store?

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#178

Post by xbryanx » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 5:00 PM UTC

mason240 wrote: post #153

xbryanx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of what you think about the current reactions, they are not solely the result of someone feeling bad. They are the reactions to the murder of 9 innocent people by a white supremacist professing a genocidal desire. Now, whether this justifies this action or not is a different matter.

You must also think we need to ban all symbols of Islam because to the Sept 11th attacks.

Not sure how you got that from my comment.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#179

Post by mason240 » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 5:05 PM UTC

xbryanx wrote: post #178

mason240 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must also think we need to ban all symbols of Islam because to the Sept 11th attacks.

Not sure how you got that from my comment.

>Regardless of what you think about the current reactions, they are not solely the result of someone feeling bad. They are the reactions to the murder of [3000] innocent people by a [group of Islamists] professing [the need to eradicate nonbelievers]. Now, whether this justifies this action or not is a different matter.

Re: Apple Removes American Civil War Games from the App Store

#180

Post by melling » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 5:11 PM UTC

pdabbadabba wrote: post #85

yequalsx wrote: post #76

Here is part of Mississippi's Declaration of Secession: "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the…

Yep. More people need to know these things. Here is another one: "Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great…

Jefferson owned slaves. While we're cleaning up our history, maybe it's time to tear down the Jefferson Memorial?

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/culture/la-et-cm-t...

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CNN anchor Ashleigh Banfield this week questioned whether the Jefferson Memorial should be taken down because Jefferson owned slaves. "There is a monument to him in the capital city of the United States. No one ever asks for that to come down," Banfield said.

Fellow anchor Don Lemon responded by saying Jefferson represented "the entire United States, not just the South." But he added: "There may come a day when we want to rethink Jefferson. I don't know if we should do that."

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