Going undercover as a sex worker • Hacker News Board

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#91

Post by brazzy » Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 12:01 PM UTC

chronial wrote: post #28

dagw wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In countries where prostitution is accepted and legal, it's safer for both the sex workers and the customers, with less risk of disease and abuse. Do you know any good studies that back this up. While I certainly want to believe it and it does fit nicely with my own general political/economic narrative of the world, I've yet to find any conclusive evidence for it.

Unfortunately, it is not true. In germany prostitution was legalized a few years ago and what mostly happened was a massive increase in it. The situation of prostitutes barely improved and human trafficking went up. But you have to keep in mind that that is also the effect of only one country doing it. What would happen if the whole EU legalized prostitution is a different question.

This is a complete BS narrative made up by people campaigning for the criminalization of prostitution.

Prostitution has been legal in Germany since before WWII. That is, neither the offering nor the use of sexual services was a crime (pimping was and still is). What changed in 2000 is merely that prostitution lost its "unconscionable" status, meaning that it can in principle be the subject of enforceable contracts.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#92

Post by brazzy » Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 12:07 PM UTC

digi_owl wrote: post #83

127 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to me that the real issue is pimping and how difficult it is to control. http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/human-traffickin... The women go there knowing that they will trade sex for money. What they do not know is how difficult and exploitative the work is.

The German system seems odd to say the least. They have legalized the activity, but they seems to not want to get involved with the operational rules. To borrow the drug comparison from further up, this would be like legalizing hard drugs but not putting down any ground rules for labeling or certification of content. Consider alcohol. Most places it is legal to sell, but there are still regulations in place, and hope…

> They have legalized the activity, but they seems to not want to get involved with the operational rules.

That's exactly the problem. Campaigning for tougher laws against sex trafficking is great voter bait, but actually enforcing the existing laws? That costs money!

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#93

Post by hackerboos » Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 12:11 PM UTC

dataker wrote: post #58

I live in a country where prostitution is legal and not taken as taboo. All I can say is that it makes things easier for everybody. Many use their bodies as a "small business", having their own personal marketing, credit card processor and online clients, increasing and improving their portfolio. Because they have such leverage, they end up being strict on what they'd do and even who their client is. In case somethin…

>I live in a country where prostitution is legal and not taken as taboo.

I can't think of any country that doesn't take prostitution as taboo. Even in Germany and the Netherlands it is...

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#94

Post by thret » Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 12:18 PM UTC

hackerboos wrote: post #93

dataker wrote: post #58

I live in a country where prostitution is legal and not taken as taboo. All I can say is that it makes things easier for everybody. Many use their bodies as a "small business", having their own personal marketing, credit card processor and online clients, increasing and improving their portfolio. Because they have such leverage, they end up being strict on what they'd do and even who their client is. In case somethin…

>I live in a country where prostitution is legal and not taken as taboo. I can't think of any country that doesn't take prostitution as taboo. Even in Germany and the Netherlands it is...

Australia? It is legal here. It isn't something people talk about much, but that doesn't mean it is a taboo.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#95

Post by psykovsky » Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 12:20 PM UTC

dataker wrote: post #58

I live in a country where prostitution is legal and not taken as taboo. All I can say is that it makes things easier for everybody. Many use their bodies as a "small business", having their own personal marketing, credit card processor and online clients, increasing and improving their portfolio. Because they have such leverage, they end up being strict on what they'd do and even who their client is. In case somethin…

The Netherlands is great in that respect. The sex crimes rate is very low because of it. I think Belgium also has the same "system" as NL.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#96

Post by jordigh » Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 12:24 PM UTC

dataker wrote: post #58

I live in a country where prostitution is legal and not taken as taboo. All I can say is that it makes things easier for everybody. Many use their bodies as a "small business", having their own personal marketing, credit card processor and online clients, increasing and improving their portfolio. Because they have such leverage, they end up being strict on what they'd do and even who their client is. In case somethin…

> All I can say is that it makes things easier for everybody.

Which country is that? The Netherlands, Austria and Germany, for example, all have horrible trafficking problems. In Nevada, the women are ostracised and harrassed by the police at the legal brothels. In New Zealand, the police cannot tell the difference between legal prostitution and illegal pimping.

So which country are you in that is doing better than these with legalised prostitution?

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#97

Post by conanbatt » Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 12:25 PM UTC

Problems like this one, and other that rank as high in crimes against humanity, make me wish we had a global citizenship and effort, that everyone should have the right for safe passage into any place in the world.

Global rights of free passage would be a goal for all people under extreme opression and ilegality, from North Korea, ISIS, slavery, sex trafficking, people trafficking. If people could leave where they are and go somewhere: maybe not everywhere, but somewhere. A place they know they can go to.

Maybe someday.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#98

Post by stefantalpalaru » Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 12:27 PM UTC

belorn wrote: post #29

When reading works like this one I tend to find three stories being merged into one. It focuses on slavery where most of the evil aspects of humans tend to come out, as in order to reduce a human person into something that can be traded, everything that gives that person a social context must be torn down. This is where the "break down" period comes from and it's a common theme in everything from the African slave tr…

> I suspect this has something to do with gender roles, where a man who is forced by poverty to unwanted work is a hero while a woman doing the same is a victim.

Not directly. It has to do with the concept of honor in the male culture: a poor man robbing, using violence or selling his ass is still despised because poverty doesn't excuse everything. Endangering your health and life in order to support a family is seen as a noble sacrifice. Renouncing your honor is seen as renouncing the whole culture and your own identity - that's hard to accept.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#99

Post by jordigh » Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 12:27 PM UTC

Ygg2 wrote: post #63

hedgew wrote: post #2

Much like with drugs, the best way to reduce human trafficking and abusive prostitution would be to fully legalize and regulate sex work. In countries where prostitution is accepted and legal, it's safer for both the sex workers and the customers, with less risk of disease and abuse. Sex workers are treated humanely and not condemned. Society in general benefits too, through properly paid taxes, lower crime rates, an…

That wasn't the case with Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Germany It seems to reduce the violence against workers, but increases human trafficking, because Germany now acts as a safe haven for traffickers. Maybe trafficking would disappear, if all societies made prostitution illegal and not a looked down profession, but I somehow doubt it[1]. So if your goal is to reduce human trafficking, it m…

> Also there is the silly issue, of woman losing her unemployment status because she didn't refused to work as a prostitute.

This did not happen. There was a sensationalised story in a paper that it could happen, but as far as I know, it was just that: sensationalised conjecturing.

The persistent human trafficking problems are real, though. Proponents of legalised prostitution argue on the meaning of "trafficking" and say that the almost invariably foreign, poor, and immigrant women who are prostituted in Germany are doing so voluntarily.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#100

Post by icebraining » Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 12:29 PM UTC

cryodesign wrote: post #90

I can't really fully comprehend this. Did she actually work as a sex worker and exposed herself to all sort of STDs? And not only that - having to deal with all sorts of nasty people... what a brave woman.

She posed as a prostitute, but thankfully I don't believe she actually worked as one, or at least she doesn't talk about about it in the documentary.

I do strongly recommend watching it, though not if you're depressed - it's very heavy for the petite bourgeoisie like me, not used to seeing this kind of misery.