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Going undercover as a sex worker

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61–70 of 236 posts

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#61
post #29

When reading works like this one I tend to find three stories being merged into one. It focuses on slavery where most of the evil aspects of humans tend to come out, as in order to reduce a human person into something that can be traded, everything that gives that person a social context must be torn down. This is where the "break down" period comes from and it's a common theme in everything from the African slave tr…

Many (most?) of the women involved in these situations don't go there out of choice or with full knowledge of what they're getting involved in; they're either lied to and subsequently trapped, sold by their families (which is where poverty is a big factor, and certainly is not a choice made by the girls themselves), or outright kidnapped. That's the difference in your man vs. woman scenario - someone working in a coa…

Are you sure coal mine workers were aware of everything ? You may never know what will happen even if you worked there for long. And maybe previous workers, those still alive to talk, were coerced into silence to avoid being fired, may not want to stress acquaintance trying to earn money, or would like more colleagues to lessen the load. Maybe that wasn't the case back in the days. But today's miners seem rarely given any choice or information (talking about African rare earth minerals miners)

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#62
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one puzzled by this comment?

You shouldn't be. I'm a Muslim and I've dealt with numerous such individuals painting Muslims as backward and illiterate. Muslims are the scapegoat of this generation, as the Jews, Blacks were before them. Their entire worldview is constructed of an us vs. them ideology rather than understanding that we're fundamentally the same regardless of our ethnicity/faiths/inclinations/etc.

> I'm a Muslim and I've dealt with numerous such individuals

Sorry. It must be annoying.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#63
post #2

Much like with drugs, the best way to reduce human trafficking and abusive prostitution would be to fully legalize and regulate sex work. In countries where prostitution is accepted and legal, it's safer for both the sex workers and the customers, with less risk of disease and abuse. Sex workers are treated humanely and not condemned. Society in general benefits too, through properly paid taxes, lower crime rates, an…

That wasn't the case with Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Germany

It seems to reduce the violence against workers, but increases human trafficking, because Germany now acts as a safe haven for traffickers. Maybe trafficking would disappear, if all societies made prostitution illegal and not a looked down profession, but I somehow doubt it[1].

So if your goal is to reduce human trafficking, it might not be the most worthwhile of means.

Also there is the silly issue, of woman losing her unemployment status because she didn't refused to work as a prostitute.

[1] Even if all countries made prostitution legal, nothing stops a gangster from kidnapping a woman and dragging her from say Mexico to US to serve as sex worker. She could escape and there would be less stigma; but it sounds to me like those poor workers trapped in Dubai/Quatar and they had no reprieve. As someone mentioned, there is a supply/demand problem that can't be solved via prositutes.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#64
post #2

Much like with drugs, the best way to reduce human trafficking and abusive prostitution would be to fully legalize and regulate sex work. In countries where prostitution is accepted and legal, it's safer for both the sex workers and the customers, with less risk of disease and abuse. Sex workers are treated humanely and not condemned. Society in general benefits too, through properly paid taxes, lower crime rates, an…

Also worth mentioning we shouldn't limit ourselves to domestic legalization.

Because prostitution would still be illegal in developed countries, human trafficking would continue to happen, as prostitutes will need someone to "take care of stuff".

If they could become independent with technology, they wouldn't be vulnerable to violence, rape,...

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#65
post #2

Much like with drugs, the best way to reduce human trafficking and abusive prostitution would be to fully legalize and regulate sex work. In countries where prostitution is accepted and legal, it's safer for both the sex workers and the customers, with less risk of disease and abuse. Sex workers are treated humanely and not condemned. Society in general benefits too, through properly paid taxes, lower crime rates, an…

The problem I have with this logic, is that I suspect with legalization/regulation, supply increases to meet or exceed demand, and drives prices down. This isn't a tremendous economic problem with drugs, because it should be relatively straightforward to ramp up production (and employment and tax revenue increases with it). With prostitution however, trying to increase the supply and driving down costs creates proble…

Hmm, I wonder if making semi-realistic sexbots would be the solution to this supply/demand problem. You can make them way, way faster than you can breed humans.

I know it sounds icky, but urge for sex often drives technology.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#66
post #29

When reading works like this one I tend to find three stories being merged into one. It focuses on slavery where most of the evil aspects of humans tend to come out, as in order to reduce a human person into something that can be traded, everything that gives that person a social context must be torn down. This is where the "break down" period comes from and it's a common theme in everything from the African slave tr…

> in order to reduce a human person into something that can be traded everything that give that person a social context must be torn down

This is one of the ideas explored in Graeber's book "Debt: The first 5000 years". Worth reading.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#67
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In countries where prostitution is accepted and legal, it's safer for both the sex workers and the customers, with less risk of disease and abuse. Do you know any good studies that back this up. While I certainly want to believe it and it does fit nicely with my own general political/economic narrative of the world, I've yet to find any conclusive evidence for it.

You might want to read the execute summary of this report [0]. It was produced by a panel whom the New Zealand government commissioned to examine the effect of legalising prostitution in New Zealand. The results are perhaps more ambiguous than anyone would like, but at least you know that the report isn't politically slanted. (For a little bit of context: prostitution became legal in New Zealand in 2003.) [0] http://…

Not to state the obvious, but it's considerably more difficult to traffic anything to New Zealand than it is to Holland or Germany.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#68
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation in the Netherlands is also a lot more complicated. Drugs are not largely legal at all, they're largely illegal. In fact, they're entirely illegal, there's just a gray area when it comes to a few soft drugs (pretty much just weed now - and I believe truffles in some head shops possibly... but no longer mushrooms.) Bringing weed into the country: still technically illegal. Other drugs: very much illegal.…

While i'm not sure whether legalization or the Swedish approach works best(criminalization of purchase), but if we want to prevent trafficking, maybe it's possible to use some sort of lie detector(standard, fmri, P300), etc - and ask girls whether they work for themselves, or are forced , or trafficked - and only let girls who work for themselves work in legal brothels ? It won't be perfect, but maybe it can reduce t…

> EDIT: please down just downvote, explain what's wrong with my line of reasoning ?

Nothing wrong with your reasoning, many people on HN stupidly enough think that the downvote button is for when you disagree with a comment.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#69
post #30
post #13

What makes me very uncomfortable is that are enough men that not only not care about, but actually enjoy rape to make it a huge market. This is not something that happens "between two consenting adults". If you read the article you'll see that there is no way in hell that they don't know what they are participating in. In fact many seek out the worst treated girls. There looks to me that there are more than one type…

The sad truth is that rape (like many disturbing behaviours including murder and child abuse) is entirely natural, it's not actually aberrant behaviour. Of course we're capable of recognizing it as harmful behaviour we would rather not see happen, but that's a matter of "ought" not "is". I think the best bet at preventing rape is education and empathy (violence becomes more difficult if you can relate to your victim)…

By your definition, everything that ever happens is natuaral. That makes the word completely meaningless.

Re: Going undercover as a sex worker

#70
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation in the Netherlands is also a lot more complicated. Drugs are not largely legal at all, they're largely illegal. In fact, they're entirely illegal, there's just a gray area when it comes to a few soft drugs (pretty much just weed now - and I believe truffles in some head shops possibly... but no longer mushrooms.) Bringing weed into the country: still technically illegal. Other drugs: very much illegal.…

While i'm not sure whether legalization or the Swedish approach works best(criminalization of purchase), but if we want to prevent trafficking, maybe it's possible to use some sort of lie detector(standard, fmri, P300), etc - and ask girls whether they work for themselves, or are forced , or trafficked - and only let girls who work for themselves work in legal brothels ? It won't be perfect, but maybe it can reduce t…

Lie detectors are nonsense. It's dangerous to promote their use. The US is the only Western country where it's routinely used.
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