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Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

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Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#171

Post by Dewie3 »

swombat wrote: post #92
guelo wrote: post #72

For those like me that are wondering what is going on, apparently some Silicon Valley executive died recently.

A human being died and another human being went through grief and wrote a moving post about her journey. Do you really need to apply (what I'm sensing to be) pejorative labels to it? Death may not be your typical HN fare, but it is a subject that touches all of us eventually, so far with no exception. I am glad that she was willing to write this and share it. My life is richer for having read it.

It's a succinct explanation of why this particular passing might be relevant to this specific site. Maybe as a preemptive answer to others who might be wondering the same thing. Being succinct might come across as cold.

In order to come across as less pejorative, maybe I would have changed "some Silicon Valley executive" to "a Silicon Valley executive". But the rest is fine on the face of it.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#172

Post by Dewie3 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #122
Dewie3 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People try to be happy because they intrinsically want to be happy. Not because being happy matters after you're dead -- obviously you're not in a state to be happy after you're dead. At least not in this world. Why do people want to make a lasting change ? Purely for intrinsic reasons? Or is there some hidden assumption like for example that it will make them happy in their later years?

Satisfaction from seeing "fruits of your labor" improve the condition of everyone is also a source of happiness. I don't think it's worse than happiness from having a good family life. I also don't think there's some kind of "altruism" that isn't ultimately just another way of getting happiness - maybe a more intellectual one, out of the feeling of doing something one considers morally good.

> Satisfaction from seeing "fruits of your labor" improve the condition of everyone is also a source of happiness. I don't think it's worse than happiness from having a good family life.

Yet you seemed to want to draw a distinction between happiness and a lasting impact. Though the distinction was perhaps just with the family/local impact.

> I also don't think there's some kind of "altruism" that isn't ultimately just another way of getting happiness - maybe a more intellectual one, out of the feeling of doing something one considers morally good.

Right, but a family-related happiness is less because it's just a result of chemicals (oxycotine?) that are related to survival, a sort of failure mode? You said yourself that it is less fundamental. What is fundamental? And why is your derivation of happiness higher than those who go by the supposed more base instincts of focusing on their family? Because the hormonal causes are harder to pin down and analyse? So what? Something more complex and harder to describe is better?

If you feel happy, I think the distinction of why is unimportant.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#173

Post by jamesrcole »

noir-york wrote: post #149
jamesrcole wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we choose the society we want That's not really true. I don't think there's any meaningful sense in which anybody chose this society. We don't have that level of control.

Oh yes we do! Every time we vote. Every society makes choices about what it values most. Values prized in Anglo-Saxon economy is freedom and individualism. Asians see it differently. Nordic and Mediterranean societies value social welfare. Take universal health care; what some see as 'communism' is to others the perfectly obvious logic that every human being deserves health care by virtue of being a human being, and…

I think that's a ridiculous simplification.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#174

Post by br3w5 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #60
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the things that—on your deathbed—you expect to regret? Will it be that you didn't spend as much time as you could've with your parents before they died? How about with your siblings? Maybe it was all of the times that you didn't make it to your kids' soccer games, piano recitals, school plays, or graduations? Or will it be that you didn't spend nearly enough nights at the office fixing your social media star…

What are the things that—on your deathbed—you expect to regret? Always found these philosophical shortcut tropes (eg. if you had just one day left...) amusing, but not particularly illuminating because they over-simplify life long achievements to mere regret-avoidance. If you are asking yourself that, then 1. You are privileged to be at that level on the Maslow hierarchy and 2. you already know the answer. Embedded i…

It depends what you value. If you value your work on products above everything else then fine. The reason that people commonly say things like "the time with people in your life is what really matters" is because that actually matters to people more than anything else - I don't think either can be dismissed.

My personal stance is that I'm yet to be convinced that technology really has a lasting tangible benefit other than for maybe 5% of the population. For those 5% specialised technology will have made huge changes e.g. being able to see or hear for the first time. But why does it make such a huge change to people's lives? Because they can communicate more with the people they love, with the world around them.

And let's be honest pretty much all technology gets 'productised' to be sold, and to do that people have to be convinced to buy into it when they don't really need it (I'm open to being convinced otherwise).

I love working on technology but for me it's one of the smaller (but definitely fun) games that play out in life.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#175

Post by angdis »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #10
GuiA wrote: post #3

Paul Buchheit wrote a wonderful post, after similar circumstances, that I often re-read: > On a more practical level, what matters most in our day-to-day lives is that we're good to ourselves and to each other. It's actually not possible to only do one or the other -- we must do both or neither, but that's a topic for another time. Sometimes, when I write about startups or other interests of mine, I worry that perhap…

Investing money, creating new products, and all the other things we do are wonderful games and can be a lot of fun, but it's important to remember that it's all just a game. I feel like this sentiment is very common, but is implicitly stating that all of the other things, family, friends, personal health etc... are not games - when I don't see why that would be the case. Nothing distinguishes those things for me. Cre…

Sheryl Sandberg is being talked about because she happens to be in the public eye and has gone through tragedy that we can all relate to (or eventually relate to for those of you that are in your 20's). The real point is not "legacy". The real point is everyone goes through this stuff and we empathize with it. I actually forgot what Buchheit did, but still remember his touching essay from 2012 (as did the first responder to this thread).

"Legacy" may be the focus of your life, but that's just you. There's nothing wrong with that, but also your values are no more valid than anyone else's.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#176

Post by primroot »

ars wrote: post #124
Dewie3 wrote: post #88

> Judaism calls for a period of intense mourning known as shiva that lasts seven days after a loved one is buried. It's strange to me to prescribe how long people should mourn. Some people are appalled when someone seems to get over someone quickly after they've died. But if they are truly not sad about it any more, I say good for them. What does it help the deceased for the living to be sad over them?

Judaism does not require that a person be sad (or not sad) during that time. A person's emotions are what they are. The mourning time is about actions, yes. But it's more about community. During the shiva a person does not work, and (if they want it) will receive many many visits from members of the community (even people they do not know personally). They can receive those visitors however they want, just as someone…

Here in Panama we have the traditional catholic funeral rituals (which are rarely practiced by the urban population). Part of this are the "nine nights" where the family of the deceased hosts long hours (mostly during the day) of prayer repetitions (velorio) for nine days. Friends and extended family come to visit, and they may choose to participate in the prayers. The guests are received with coffee, fresh cheese and a especial kind of bread. After the ninth night, some mourners choose to continue dressing with neutral colors for months.

As you mentioned, this is mostly about community support.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#177

Post by rbanffy »

sambeau wrote: post #77
wumbernang wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. That's the tl;dr I needed. Coming from the UK, this made no sense whatsoever to me.

His death made the front page of the BBC website.

I made no connection when I briefly saw the news. Her post and the attitude of giving meaning to a senseless loss (isn't death always senseless?) is moving. There are many lessons she learned that are useful to us all. Everyone loses loved ones. From old age, from accidents, from completely unexpected events. In the end, all that matters is what we, the people who stay alive, do out of it.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#178

Post by falcolas »

peteretep wrote: post #14
redmaverick wrote: post #9

Joe Biden's speech in 2012 touches upon similar themes that Sheryl writes about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwZ6UfXm410&t=5m10s "I have to tell you. I used to resent people. They'd come up to me and say, 'Joe, I know how you feel. I know, right? I knew they meant well. I knew they were genuine. But you knew they didn't have any damn idea." "For the first time in my life, I understood how someone could consciousl…

> Because they’d been to the top of the mountain, and they > just knew in their heart they’d never get there again, > that it was never going to get — never going to be that > way ever again And Sheryl says: > I know I will never feel pure joy again. Those who have > said, “You will find a new normal, but it will never be > as good” comfort me more because they know and speak the > truth Is this attitude ... normal?…

This is not my experience. I lost my best friend in the world about... 17 years ago now. No, he has not been with me, nor will he be with me for the many events which have and will make up my life. This hasn't actually changed the events which have occurred, though, nor the joy I've derived from them. At most, my thoughts about him in these events amounts to "Steve would have loved this".

Some of it is forgetting, but more of it is accepting. He's not here, but my friends that I have today are. I will smile and feel a bit melancholic sometimes when I note his absence, and cherish the memories we had created together (like singing Monty Python songs at the top of our lungs on the Ames college campus while wearing togas)... but not at the expense of today.

He was here, and the time we spent together was glorious. He's no longer here (as with so many others), but that's OK. I've made new friends. I've lived and will continue to live for today, for the friends and family and just other people who are here today... not yesterday.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#179

Post by noir-york »

jamesrcole wrote: post #173
noir-york wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes we do! Every time we vote. Every society makes choices about what it values most. Values prized in Anglo-Saxon economy is freedom and individualism. Asians see it differently. Nordic and Mediterranean societies value social welfare. Take universal health care; what some see as 'communism' is to others the perfectly obvious logic that every human being deserves health care by virtue of being a human being, and…

I think that's a ridiculous simplification.

> I don't think there's any meaningful sense in which anybody chose this society.

I just showed you how: the vote. Just because its simple does not make it ridiculous.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#180

Post by AndrewKemendo »

bad_user wrote: post #66
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the things that—on your deathbed—you expect to regret? Always found these philosophical shortcut tropes (eg. if you had just one day left...) amusing, but not particularly illuminating because they over-simplify life long achievements to mere regret-avoidance. If you are asking yourself that, then 1. You are privileged to be at that level on the Maslow hierarchy and 2. you already know the answer. Embedded i…

You should be a little careful. The odd thing about creative professionals, which includes most software developers, is that if you take Maslow's hierarchy of needs as the truth for the general population, for creative professionals this pyramid of needs is inverted. You see, most creative professionals are profoundly unhappy people. This is because the equation for happiness is usually easy - your expectations have…

I think this is a good writeup and your point about expectations is spot on. That doesn't mean that we lower expectations though, that means you keep driving till you meet them - however Sisyphusian it may seem.

By the way I'm 31, married with three kids and just recently joined the software/startup world - so your send up doesn't really fit my profile. I haven't seen any dissipation of "youthful energy" yet - if anything my energy is just more and more focused as the years go by.

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