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Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#171

Post by lsaferite »

digi_owl wrote: post #124

And they leave out the one thing that would be interesting, a wiring diagram. the C port is interesting in that it provides both USB pins and a set of pins that can be used for a number of functions (Displayport being its out of the gate use). If this leave the USB pins alone, and make use of the supplemental pins for Thunderbolt, there will be no port confusion. Especially as Tunderbolt is already set up to carry Di…

If you read the spec sheet for USB 3.1 and the Type-C connector you'll see they also talk about PCIe in alt-mode as well. DP in alt-mode is the one getting all the press though.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#172

Post by [deleted] »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #84
timdorr wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever this makes it's way to the Macbook Pro (probably next year?), this will definitely enable them to make the upgrade. Right now, they don't have any TB3-capable computers, so no one would want to buy that monitor. And I guess the sticky part will be all those 12" Macbook's with Type C connectors that wouldn't work with such a display...

Those 12" Macbook's aren't capable of driving a 5K display at 60Hz, period, even if they had a TB3 port. However, a TB3 display plugged into a standard type-C port would negotiate a DP1.2 connection so it could run 5K@30 or 4K@60.

[deleted]

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#173

Post by timdorr »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #84
timdorr wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever this makes it's way to the Macbook Pro (probably next year?), this will definitely enable them to make the upgrade. Right now, they don't have any TB3-capable computers, so no one would want to buy that monitor. And I guess the sticky part will be all those 12" Macbook's with Type C connectors that wouldn't work with such a display...

Those 12" Macbook's aren't capable of driving a 5K display at 60Hz, period, even if they had a TB3 port. However, a TB3 display plugged into a standard type-C port would negotiate a DP1.2 connection so it could run 5K@30 or 4K@60.

I'm not saying they should. I'm just saying there will be confusion about there being a Type C connector on the monitor and the laptop, and that they don't work together.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#174

Post by lawl »

lfuller wrote: post #157
lawl wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that this is a very easy to pull off attack? http://www.breaknenter.org/projects/inception/ Do you also think people who use screenlocks are tinfoil hatters?

It's more that your computer should be considered compromised regardless if you allow someone to gain physical access to it. You should know where your device is at all times. I'm not willing to throw away my device's resale value to block a physical compromise attack.

It's about noise. The physical lock on your door doesn't prevent anyone from breaking in. But you can clearly tell someone broke in and it creates noise.

It's not always practical to take your notebook to the toilet with you, so you want to make it as hard as possible for someone to compromise it in a limited time frame. Security is never absolute, it just about buying time to notice an attack. This applies to the physical lock on your door just as much as it does on your notebook

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#175

Post by mortenjorck »

Roritharr wrote: post #53

I'm kinda disapointed about the whole Type-C scenario. Now when you've got a Type-C Port, you just don't know what it can do. It could be anything from a USB 2 Port, up to a USB 3.1 + 20A Power + Thunderbolt Port. You can't see this from looking at it, and Spec Sheets today have a problem of listing the version numbers of HDMI and DisplayPort Ports, I don't see them suddenly becoming very concise about this. The prom…

Apple, and by extension most other OEMs, will likely label the ports in the same way Apple already differentiates Thunderbolt ports from the physically indistinguishable Mini DisplayPort. Most likely scenario:

- Type C with Thunderbolt gets the Thunderbolt zig-zag logo

- Type C with DisplayPort alternate mode gets the "screen" rectangle

- Type C with USB only is unmarked

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#176

Post by legulere »

Roritharr wrote: post #53

I'm kinda disapointed about the whole Type-C scenario. Now when you've got a Type-C Port, you just don't know what it can do. It could be anything from a USB 2 Port, up to a USB 3.1 + 20A Power + Thunderbolt Port. You can't see this from looking at it, and Spec Sheets today have a problem of listing the version numbers of HDMI and DisplayPort Ports, I don't see them suddenly becoming very concise about this. The prom…

The USB type-c cables are also just a mess. They can support 5 different USB PD profiles and can support either just USB 2.0 or USB 3.1. This means 10 different cables. The cable included when buying the new Macbook for instance only supports USB 2.0.

People will soon wonder why their device is charging so slowly/having such low data transfer rates.

Now there are 2 additional thunderbolt cables (powered and unpowered) with type c on both ends. People will think it's an USB cable and wonder why their connection isn't working at all, or try to replace it with an USB cable

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#177

Post by rasz_pl »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #97
the8472 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the DMA vulnerabilities of thunderbolt, that's not too far off. At least until we have some sort of IOMMU-based hotplug device firewalls in our operating systems.

USB 3.0 has DMA too.

On USB only Host is allowed to be a bus master. Thunderbold does PCI/PCIe and by extension allows any plugged gizmo to take over whole computer.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#179

Post by legulere »

lectrick wrote: post #35
izacus wrote: post #14

Hmm, I don't understand the description fully - does that mean that it can happen that I can get a device with USB-C plug, plug it into computer and it won't work because the device uses Thunderbolt 3 and the computer isn't an Apple? Or will all Thunderbolt 3 devices be able to scale back and communicate with devices over USB if the controller is not available? How will that work with displays over USB-C connectors?…

For the record, 1) Apple was the first to use USB even though it wasn't an Apple tech 2) Apple was the first to use Thunderbolt even though it wasn't an Apple tech 3) Apple is now the first to use USB 3 Type C (aka "USB-C") even though it wasn't an Apple tech (although rumor has it that Apple engineers had a lot of input on it) The technology you're probably confusing it with is FireWire, which WAS Apple tech.

The first USB-C device was the Nokia N1 released only in China and unveiled on 18 November 2014

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#180

Post by ajslater »

mortenjorck wrote: post #175
Roritharr wrote: post #53

I'm kinda disapointed about the whole Type-C scenario. Now when you've got a Type-C Port, you just don't know what it can do. It could be anything from a USB 2 Port, up to a USB 3.1 + 20A Power + Thunderbolt Port. You can't see this from looking at it, and Spec Sheets today have a problem of listing the version numbers of HDMI and DisplayPort Ports, I don't see them suddenly becoming very concise about this. The prom…

Apple, and by extension most other OEMs, will likely label the ports in the same way Apple already differentiates Thunderbolt ports from the physically indistinguishable Mini DisplayPort. Most likely scenario: - Type C with Thunderbolt gets the Thunderbolt zig-zag logo - Type C with DisplayPort alternate mode gets the "screen" rectangle - Type C with USB only is unmarked

or perhaps the USB logo for USB only.
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