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Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#51

Post by MrRadar »

smhenderson wrote: post #16
jacobolus wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they can now have both USB A and USB C ports without it being weird I’m expecting them to kill off USB type A ports entirely on future laptops. We’ll see what happens to Magsafe, HDMI, and SD card slots. I wouldn’t be too surprised to see a Macbook Pro with 4–6 USB type C (Thunderbolt 3) ports, a headphone jack, and nothing else. > Imagine screens, laptops, TVs, phones, mp3 players, docks, hard drives and toasters…

I could even see them ditching the head phone jack eventually. I can't imagine it will be long before someone starts making USB C headphones.

USB Type C actually includes a special mode allowing analog audio output specifically to allow "USB C" headphones (and adaptors).[0] Whether anyone will actually implement it is another question.

[0] See pages 24-26, 29, 34 of this PDF: https://intel.activeevents.com/sf14/connect/fileDownload/ses...

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#52

Post by lebrad »

jrockway wrote: post #46
lectrick wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, 1) Apple was the first to use USB even though it wasn't an Apple tech 2) Apple was the first to use Thunderbolt even though it wasn't an Apple tech 3) Apple is now the first to use USB 3 Type C (aka "USB-C") even though it wasn't an Apple tech (although rumor has it that Apple engineers had a lot of input on it) The technology you're probably confusing it with is FireWire, which WAS Apple tech.

> 3) Apple is now the first to use USB 3 Type C Didn't the Chromebook Pixel 2 come out slightly before the MacBook?

Yes, the MacBook was released April 10, but the Chromebook Pixel was already shipping USB type-C in March. Someone in the other Thunderbolt type-C thread also mistakenly claimed that Apple was the first company to use type-C.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#53

Post by Roritharr »

I'm kinda disapointed about the whole Type-C scenario.

Now when you've got a Type-C Port, you just don't know what it can do. It could be anything from a USB 2 Port, up to a USB 3.1 + 20A Power + Thunderbolt Port.

You can't see this from looking at it, and Spec Sheets today have a problem of listing the version numbers of HDMI and DisplayPort Ports, I don't see them suddenly becoming very concise about this.

The promise of USB has always been one of standardization. If I knew my mothers notebook is from around somewhere after 2008, if it has a USB Port, it will be USB 2 compatible.

In 2020 i won't be able to know if the monitor i recommend my mother will be able to connect to her laptop over the USB Type-C Port or not, or if it will run at full resolution or not, if it will be able to charge the notebook over it, or not... etc.

Its just a mess. If you make a standard, please make it a standard, not a pick and choose affair where the result ist just confusion.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#54

Post by pgeorgi »

jordanthoms wrote: post #47
pgeorgi wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB Type C provides a standardized protocol for protocol negotiation. I assume that Thunderbolt uses that. It's already used in Type C to enable plugging in USB, chargers (PD spec), HDMI or DP adapters ( https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/dingdong ) and I think even to route PCIe over Type C. Adding Thunderbolt to the mix shouldn't be too hard.

I think the issue is, that if you have a thunderbolt over USB-C display, and plug it into a normal USB-C port on your laptop (say the latest macbook), it won't work, since the laptop doesn't support the thunderbolt signaling. So it's a new point of confusion - USB devices which are physically compatible but not electrically. It's something that could possibly be solved through the markings on the devices etc and I st…

I'd hope they gave up on their own DP signalling and just use the type C one.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#55

Post by FreakyT »

Roritharr wrote: post #53

I'm kinda disapointed about the whole Type-C scenario. Now when you've got a Type-C Port, you just don't know what it can do. It could be anything from a USB 2 Port, up to a USB 3.1 + 20A Power + Thunderbolt Port. You can't see this from looking at it, and Spec Sheets today have a problem of listing the version numbers of HDMI and DisplayPort Ports, I don't see them suddenly becoming very concise about this. The prom…

I disagree, provided that the standard provides for some degree of backwards compatibility.

I think it's great how a USB 3.0 drive will still work on a USB 1.0 computer from 1999. Sure, it'll run slower, but it'll work, and even without an adapter! With Apple's previous various high-speed ports (Firewire 400, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt), they have no backwards compatibility -- from FW 400 -> 800 you could use an adaptor, but for Thunderbolt you're out of luck completely.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#56

Post by wlesieutre »

pjc50 wrote: post #44
snarfy wrote: post #34

The USB C connector is awesome and this is great news. I still wish the industry would have standardized on the 2.5mm jack. It can be plugged in any direction. You could pull a cord out of a mess of cables and it would not snag as there is nothing to snag on.

Not very suitable for high-speed impedence-matched communication, and not ideal for power delivery: the 'ring' prong in the socket touches the tip on insertion.

And for a 12-wire USB Type-C equivalent you'd need a TRRRRRRRRRRS connector.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#57

Post by outworlder »

So, will Apple finally be able to refresh the Thunderbolt Display?

I got an old one I want to sell before it gets obsolete. I guess the time is now.

Edit: "Thunderbolt 3 integrates USB 3.1, optional 100W power delivery, 5K @ 60Hz display."

Optional power delivery? Optional nowadays just mean "will be removed before even reaching production"

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#58

Post by Roritharr »

FreakyT wrote: post #55
Roritharr wrote: post #53

I'm kinda disapointed about the whole Type-C scenario. Now when you've got a Type-C Port, you just don't know what it can do. It could be anything from a USB 2 Port, up to a USB 3.1 + 20A Power + Thunderbolt Port. You can't see this from looking at it, and Spec Sheets today have a problem of listing the version numbers of HDMI and DisplayPort Ports, I don't see them suddenly becoming very concise about this. The prom…

I disagree, provided that the standard provides for some degree of backwards compatibility. I think it's great how a USB 3.0 drive will still work on a USB 1.0 computer from 1999. Sure, it'll run slower, but it'll work , and even without an adapter! With Apple's previous various high-speed ports (Firewire 400, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt), they have no backwards compatibility -- from FW 400 -> 800 you could use an adap…

The point is, there will be Plug-Compatible Devices that are not Backwards compatible, as evidenced by the Thunderbolt Port switching to it.

Of course other Devices will follow that come without external power supplies and other features that don't allow for graceful degradation. Thats my point.

If it all were backwards compatible as it has been until now, things would be great, but that door has been shut now.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#59

Post by [deleted] »

FreakyT wrote: post #55
Roritharr wrote: post #53

I'm kinda disapointed about the whole Type-C scenario. Now when you've got a Type-C Port, you just don't know what it can do. It could be anything from a USB 2 Port, up to a USB 3.1 + 20A Power + Thunderbolt Port. You can't see this from looking at it, and Spec Sheets today have a problem of listing the version numbers of HDMI and DisplayPort Ports, I don't see them suddenly becoming very concise about this. The prom…

I disagree, provided that the standard provides for some degree of backwards compatibility. I think it's great how a USB 3.0 drive will still work on a USB 1.0 computer from 1999. Sure, it'll run slower, but it'll work , and even without an adapter! With Apple's previous various high-speed ports (Firewire 400, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt), they have no backwards compatibility -- from FW 400 -> 800 you could use an adap…

[deleted]

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#60

Post by [deleted] »

FreakyT wrote: post #55
Roritharr wrote: post #53

I'm kinda disapointed about the whole Type-C scenario. Now when you've got a Type-C Port, you just don't know what it can do. It could be anything from a USB 2 Port, up to a USB 3.1 + 20A Power + Thunderbolt Port. You can't see this from looking at it, and Spec Sheets today have a problem of listing the version numbers of HDMI and DisplayPort Ports, I don't see them suddenly becoming very concise about this. The prom…

I disagree, provided that the standard provides for some degree of backwards compatibility. I think it's great how a USB 3.0 drive will still work on a USB 1.0 computer from 1999. Sure, it'll run slower, but it'll work , and even without an adapter! With Apple's previous various high-speed ports (Firewire 400, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt), they have no backwards compatibility -- from FW 400 -> 800 you could use an adap…

[deleted]
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