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Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#41

Post by Nullabillity »

smhenderson wrote: post #16
jacobolus wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they can now have both USB A and USB C ports without it being weird I’m expecting them to kill off USB type A ports entirely on future laptops. We’ll see what happens to Magsafe, HDMI, and SD card slots. I wouldn’t be too surprised to see a Macbook Pro with 4–6 USB type C (Thunderbolt 3) ports, a headphone jack, and nothing else. > Imagine screens, laptops, TVs, phones, mp3 players, docks, hard drives and toasters…

I could even see them ditching the head phone jack eventually. I can't imagine it will be long before someone starts making USB C headphones.

Well, considering that USB A headsets are already pretty common...

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#42

Post by izacus »

gutnor wrote: post #33
kcorbitt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the balance, having one connector and hand-waving everything else as "it's all software" is probably better than the bewildering combination of ports and protocols we have now. But it will come with its own new and interesting issues as well. For example, when can/can't you plug your USB-C webcam into your USB-C monitor and expect your computer to detect it? If I plug my USB-C toaster into a USB-C computer, will i…

That's already the case with USB ( and to some extend Bluetooth and NFC ) What do you get when you plug you USB phone in your USB computer ? What about the tablet ? Why can I read files from my phone via USB but my phone can't read file from my USB HDD ? Why is my Bluetooth headphone mono with the computer, but stereo with the phone. Why can's my NFC yubikey work with my NFC phone. Right now, people mostly ignore it…

I was hoping the USB-C would actually fix this issue - after all, USB was mostly universally compatible for vast majority of devices and I think people started to expect that if you can plug it in, it works.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#43

Post by nitrogen »

quonn wrote: post #22
Already__Taken wrote: post #10

Seems to be trading all our different ports with the problem of having all levels of different cables? This port is going to be very expensive for the manufactures. If it does everything I'm going to need a bunch. Does anything stop OEMs making a row of identical ports that only 1 charges my laptop, only a couple take can use the fastest cable and I'm sure all sorts of potential shenanigans,

I think we will see symbols next to the port like the thunderbolt symbol and a charging symbol. And I guess most manufacturers will enable all of their ports at least for charging to keep things simple (and customers happy).

The high current required for charging makes that one of the more difficult things to spread around to all the ports, I'd imagine.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#44

Post by pjc50 »

snarfy wrote: post #34

The USB C connector is awesome and this is great news. I still wish the industry would have standardized on the 2.5mm jack. It can be plugged in any direction. You could pull a cord out of a mess of cables and it would not snag as there is nothing to snag on.

Not very suitable for high-speed impedence-matched communication, and not ideal for power delivery: the 'ring' prong in the socket touches the tip on insertion.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#45

Post by bryanlarsen »

nitrogen wrote: post #43
quonn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we will see symbols next to the port like the thunderbolt symbol and a charging symbol. And I guess most manufacturers will enable all of their ports at least for charging to keep things simple (and customers happy).

The high current required for charging makes that one of the more difficult things to spread around to all the ports, I'd imagine.

After the MacBook came out, but before the new Chromebook Pixel, I was telling people that Apple only put a single type-C port on their MacBook for this reason. I said "When PC's come out with type-C, they'll have multiple ports, but you'll only be able to use one of them as the power port. Apple would rather have a single port than have such a confusing setup."

Of course, then the Chromebook Pixel came out and proved me wrong. I still expect some PC makers to try and shave costs by only supporting power input on one of the type-C connectors, but the Chromebook Pixel example will ensure that such an arrangement will get slammed by reviewers.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#46

Post by jrockway »

lectrick wrote: post #35
izacus wrote: post #14

Hmm, I don't understand the description fully - does that mean that it can happen that I can get a device with USB-C plug, plug it into computer and it won't work because the device uses Thunderbolt 3 and the computer isn't an Apple? Or will all Thunderbolt 3 devices be able to scale back and communicate with devices over USB if the controller is not available? How will that work with displays over USB-C connectors?…

For the record, 1) Apple was the first to use USB even though it wasn't an Apple tech 2) Apple was the first to use Thunderbolt even though it wasn't an Apple tech 3) Apple is now the first to use USB 3 Type C (aka "USB-C") even though it wasn't an Apple tech (although rumor has it that Apple engineers had a lot of input on it) The technology you're probably confusing it with is FireWire, which WAS Apple tech.

> 3) Apple is now the first to use USB 3 Type C

Didn't the Chromebook Pixel 2 come out slightly before the MacBook?

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#47

Post by jordanthoms »

pgeorgi wrote: post #25
izacus wrote: post #14

Hmm, I don't understand the description fully - does that mean that it can happen that I can get a device with USB-C plug, plug it into computer and it won't work because the device uses Thunderbolt 3 and the computer isn't an Apple? Or will all Thunderbolt 3 devices be able to scale back and communicate with devices over USB if the controller is not available? How will that work with displays over USB-C connectors?…

USB Type C provides a standardized protocol for protocol negotiation. I assume that Thunderbolt uses that. It's already used in Type C to enable plugging in USB, chargers (PD spec), HDMI or DP adapters ( https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/dingdong ) and I think even to route PCIe over Type C. Adding Thunderbolt to the mix shouldn't be too hard.

I think the issue is, that if you have a thunderbolt over USB-C display, and plug it into a normal USB-C port on your laptop (say the latest macbook), it won't work, since the laptop doesn't support the thunderbolt signaling. So it's a new point of confusion - USB devices which are physically compatible but not electrically.

It's something that could possibly be solved through the markings on the devices etc and I still think doing thunderbolt over the USB-C port is great. Perhaps the display example could fall back to supporting a display-over-usb standard, it won't work as well but could help.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#48

Post by alcidesfonseca »

berberous wrote: post #7

Can someone explain whether I should care that they are still using DP 1.2 rather than 1.3? I had thought 1.3 was needed for non stitched 4k 60hz, but this should have plenty of bandwidth, so I'm now not sure what the issue with 1.2 vs 1.3 is.

Displayport daisy-chaining for screens above 1980x1080p requires 1.3. (Using two daisy-chained dell screen's on my 2011 macbook air does not work because it requires 1.3 and mba only supports 1.2.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#50

Post by [deleted] »

jrockway wrote: post #46
lectrick wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, 1) Apple was the first to use USB even though it wasn't an Apple tech 2) Apple was the first to use Thunderbolt even though it wasn't an Apple tech 3) Apple is now the first to use USB 3 Type C (aka "USB-C") even though it wasn't an Apple tech (although rumor has it that Apple engineers had a lot of input on it) The technology you're probably confusing it with is FireWire, which WAS Apple tech.

> 3) Apple is now the first to use USB 3 Type C Didn't the Chromebook Pixel 2 come out slightly before the MacBook?

[deleted]
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