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The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

mosaicscience.com

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Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#261

Post by ryanx435 »

HAAAAMMMM wrote: post #47

All this blabbering... Men exist as functions. To assume otherwise defies every single thing you actually act upon. Without perpetual fear hanging over their heads, they'll devolve into overt rapists and monsters that burn down the world. You all secretly believe this. Stop pretending to care about us. It's about as trite as some 1990s neo-hippie caring about some non-induatrialized tribe du jour for Starbucks points…

just wanted to let you know I agree. ignore the down voting thought police and keep on keeping on, brother.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#263

Post by hamax »

erroneousfunk wrote: post #247
normloman wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men aren't killing themselves because nobody celebrates fathers day. And they're not killing themselves because sitcom dads are morons. They're killing themselves because they feel they have failed the people around them, and can't live with the shame. This pressure to succeed was not invented by feminists, and has existed for many years. Both women and men unconsciously perpetuate a toxic idea of masculinity which k…

And for every bumbling idiot dad on a television, there are 10 other shows with a lead male character and an attractive, but not-all-that-helpful supporting female. And don't even get me started about shows like "Say Yes to the Dress" and "Bridezillas" :-p It goes both ways.

It's ridiculous to talk about how bad the situation is for men on TV, when a lot of movies don't even pass the bechdel test which has the following criterias: (1) it has to have at least two women in it, who (2) who talk to each other, about (3) something besides a man.

http://bechdeltest.com/

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#264

Post by arrrg »

toyg wrote: post #152
Nursie wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> nobody would address radical feminists as "misandrist cuntholes" People frequently do! The difference is that they don't make up the whole of that movement.

>People frequently do! Do they? HackerNews search results: * "Misandry": 2 * "Misandrist": 0 * "Misogyny": 59 * "Misogynist": 23 Most people will have to look up "the opposite of misogyny" to find "misandry", and that's telling in itself. I do understand why this happens (misogyny has always been a culturally-recognized problem with real repercussions, the opposite not so much), but it still happens and it does unbal…

Misandry does not exist.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#265

Post by bakhy »

hoopd wrote: post #249
bakhy wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, exactly, forcing things upon others. Or, as people usually call this, a conversation :D You are being a hypocrite right now. You may disagree, but you may not accuse me of forcing anything just because I said something you disagree with.

You could put a minimal amount of effort into charitable readings of the comments of others. Feminism has gone so far as to brand the men's rights movement a hate group, they've gone out of their way to characterize men's rights books as rape-apologizing hate speech, and in some cases[0][1] have actively shut down talks given from what is basically the MRA viewpoint. This is clearly coercion so I feel justified in sa…

That would have been one charitable reading :D Of course I understood you as if you were implying that I am forcing something. Thank you for the clarification!

I cannot really speak for others, I represent no one but myself. I can only guess that, to some extent, such reaction from some feminists is simply defence. The MRA narrative is too focused on feminism, and has too much relativizing, "who's the greater victim" talk, which is stupid.

But I also definitely agree that some of the reaction is just a lack of will to hear what the other side has to say, which sucks.

BTW, what do you then blame?

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#266

Post by mreiland »

benihana wrote: post #205
ebfe wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually not true. Compared to men, women: * Live longer * Are less likely to kill themselves * Are less likely to be the victim of violence * Are better protected under the law if they are victimized * Are less likely to be homeless (and receive more support if they are) * Receive shorter sentences for the same crimes * Are less likely to be victims of police brutality (the disparity between men and women is…

> Everything else being equal, men face far greater issues than their female peers. This sentiment is part of the problem in my opinion. How shitty you have it isn't a damn competition. I think we should be working to remove these systemic issues for everyone, rather than keeping score on who has had the more challenging game of life. Edit: I was thinking about your comment. You bring up a legitimate list of concerns…

The last time I checked, acknowledging the problem was the first step to solving it.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#267

Post by mreiland »

mkr-hn wrote: post #228
mreiland wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a society, we need to come to terms with masculinity. That means men need to be able to be masculine without being domineering and without being castigated. You're doing the exact same thing you're complaining about. This is a social problem towards men, it is not a mans problem they need to solve for themselves. The issue has nothing to do with masculinity and everything to do with the current crop of overly lo…

Every single feminist I know encourages me to open up, and supports me when I do. You need to know better feminists.

The No True Scottmans Fallacy coupled with an assumption that the problem is men not being more like women emotionally.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#268

Post by dang »

parennoob wrote: post #8

I think this article puts the euphemism 'social perfectionism' on the subtle, and in some cases blatant anti-male stance that pervades US and UK society today. Sports teams fall over themselves to wear pink for Mother's Day, hardly anyone celebrates Father's Day. [1] Time Magazine publishes an article on how "Men are Obsolete". [2] Politicians routinely trumpet the 77% pay gap despite it being "more complicated than…

Please don't take threads like this further off-topic with prefabricated lists of links and talking points. This is not conversation.

This entire thread is a train wreck, but this comment is one of the places the tracks were blown up.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#269

Post by mreiland »

normloman wrote: post #207
mreiland wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a society, we need to come to terms with masculinity. That means men need to be able to be masculine without being domineering and without being castigated. You're doing the exact same thing you're complaining about. This is a social problem towards men, it is not a mans problem they need to solve for themselves. The issue has nothing to do with masculinity and everything to do with the current crop of overly lo…

But feminists aren't the ones enforcing a rigid version of masculinity that discourages men from talking about their problems.

In other words, it's mens fault.

This is exactly the problem. Instead of considering what it would take to solve the problem you point the finger at men for no other reason than they aren't women.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#270

Post by [deleted] »

mreiland wrote: post #267
mkr-hn wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single feminist I know encourages me to open up, and supports me when I do. You need to know better feminists.

The No True Scottmans Fallacy coupled with an assumption that the problem is men not being more like women emotionally.

[deleted]
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