The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills • Hacker News Board

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#211

Post by balabaster » Wed, May 13, 2015, 2:08 PM UTC

sukilot wrote: post #73

alextgordon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody's brain is wired differently (and infused with a different cocktail of chemicals). For me, controlling my emotions brings a sense of inner calm -- happiness. There is nothing better than thinking with a clear head, without being dogged by feelings of anger, anxiety, jealousy, fear or sadness.

Often happiness, thrill, arousal is better than thinking with a clear head.

Happiness is found by peace in your own reflection. Be happy where you are, with what you have, with who you are. It's not attained by anything further than this. Arousal feels good, but that's not happiness. Thrill feels good, but it's not happiness. These things are distractions, like drugs, hobbies, work. Happiness is contentment within the moment and delight in what the moment brings.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#212

Post by tdkl » Wed, May 13, 2015, 2:09 PM UTC

Red_Tarsius wrote: post #88

The media have been churning out self-reinforcing stereotypes for decades. The effects are as subtle as lethal. A few years ago I was very stressed out. I thought that talking about my problems (college, family, whatever) would have helped me. I shared my worries and fears with a few my female friends. Bad idea. > “A man who’s needing help is seen as a figure of fun”

That must have been horrible. I had a similar experience, but what I got out of it is that I relearned what "friend" actually stands for and that not many exist in my life. "Close aquaintances" are more common, but friends are rare.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#213

Post by ep103 » Wed, May 13, 2015, 2:09 PM UTC

ebfe wrote: post #186

louhike wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did not win, they just managed to be listened to. Women still have more difficulties than men. And telling that is not saying that men do not have problems.

That's actually not true. Compared to men, women: * Live longer * Are less likely to kill themselves * Are less likely to be the victim of violence * Are better protected under the law if they are victimized * Are less likely to be homeless (and receive more support if they are) * Receive shorter sentences for the same crimes * Are less likely to be victims of police brutality (the disparity between men and women is…

I've deleted this comment based on replies, I may have had wrong information : )

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#214

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, May 13, 2015, 2:15 PM UTC

ep103 wrote: post #213

ebfe wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually not true. Compared to men, women: * Live longer * Are less likely to kill themselves * Are less likely to be the victim of violence * Are better protected under the law if they are victimized * Are less likely to be homeless (and receive more support if they are) * Receive shorter sentences for the same crimes * Are less likely to be victims of police brutality (the disparity between men and women is…

I've deleted this comment based on replies, I may have had wrong information : )

You can try, but every study I've seen has found that men are favored in contested custody proceedings.

Its true that women are more likely to end up with custody, but that appears to because they are vastly more likely to seek custody.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#215

Post by Nursie » Wed, May 13, 2015, 2:15 PM UTC

hoopd wrote: post #206

Nursie wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> But we do need to make it so men can say "I'm not having a good day" and have someone else say "is it the kind of thing you want to talk to me about?" And you know what? This is exactly what my most outspoken-feminist female friend does. The MRAs have the wrong of things IMHO, and I'm glad I have good friends.

I suppose I'll get labled an MRA for this but I've found feminists to be the absolutely least supportive people in my life over the past X years. When somebody has an ideological belief that you're luckier than they are it's difficult for them to feel empathy for you.

Relating personal experience does not make one an 'MRA'.

It's always going to depend on who you know, and I'm not trying to say that feminism has made her a compassionate person, just that my friend is a good person regardless and her dedication to feminism hasn't made her into any sort of man-hating caricature.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#216

Post by falcolas » Wed, May 13, 2015, 2:17 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #199

lazyant wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, name a tv show where the man is the idiot and the woman the smart or normal one (all of them). Name a sitcom where the man is smart and the woman an idiot (none of them, and 'Married with children' doesn't count, they were all idiots. Of course I'm not advocating portraying women as idiots).

In a TV show in which people are portrayed as unusually smart (not merely normal), most of them will be male.

And hampered by social ineptitude completely out of proportion to their increased intelligence, to the point where they depend upon someone of the opposite gender to lubricate their social interactions.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#217

Post by ep103 » Wed, May 13, 2015, 2:18 PM UTC

randrews wrote: post #210

lazyant wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, name a tv show where the man is the idiot and the woman the smart or normal one (all of them). Name a sitcom where the man is smart and the woman an idiot (none of them, and 'Married with children' doesn't count, they were all idiots. Of course I'm not advocating portraying women as idiots).

Parks and Recreation. Ron Swanson is an excellent masculine role model.

The Ron Swanson character is humorous specifically because it pokes fun at the traditional male role by exaggerating it to an extreme. A better example might have been the men in Mad Men, but there too, the narrative goes out of its way to show the problems with those characters through a modern filter.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#218

Post by BurningFrog » Wed, May 13, 2015, 2:23 PM UTC

fierycatnet wrote: post #58

voltagex_ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you, what's your budget and what do you enjoy?

I am in TX with a budget of ~1500 for a week or two. The longer and cheaper alone time is better. What do I like, you know I've been so slammed and in my head that I can't even pick a vacation spot or remember what I like. I think I'd enjoy just some peace somewhere, disconnected from it all for a week or two.

Get a backpack, a tent, some supplies and go hiking. It costs next to nothing, can be done almost anywhere, gives mind clearing exercise, and gives you concrete and solvable problems to focus on.

Perhaps best of all, you'll be outside of cell coverage.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#219

Post by ep103 » Wed, May 13, 2015, 2:24 PM UTC

bakhy wrote: post #101

M8 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we are kinda equal" Which gender legally gets the kids, house and alimony in +90% of divorces?

We could start listing examples of injustices, each one of us could find them, and we would only get farther from finding any solution, or farther from just having a meaningful discussion. I am not negating that there are prejudice against men. I simply wish to point out the obvious - these prejudice are a product of patriarchy. It was not feminism that painted the picture of the man as incompetent parent. It is a ve…

> It was not feminism that painted the picture of the man as incompetent parent.

No, but it is the reason that this is the modern trope men are reduced to in modern media. Matt Groening has gone on the record saying that the reason he created Homer and Bart as incompetent / lovable / stupid / trouble makers, and Lisa / Marge as competent, intelligent role models, is because at the time the series was coming out he felt that was a good way to avoid getting negative publicity for his new series from various feminist groups around the country. No one was going to protest a stupid male role model, or a trouble making male kid, but making the women the same way might, and making them the positive characters would win his show support from feminist groups. Most modern sitcoms follow this same format for the same reason.

Re: The male suicides: how social perfectionism kills

#220

Post by bakhy » Wed, May 13, 2015, 2:25 PM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #201

Dewie3 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As such lift heavy, Is this supposed to be a joke? That's really the best advice to deal with this situation that you have? Whenever I see "start lifting", I can't decide if they really believe in it as a magic bullet or if they're taking the piss.

"This situation" is insoluble. As a man you just have to deal with it. That is all there is. Maybe one day family law in the USA and UK will be less one-sided but it will still be the case that no one gives a fucj about men qua men. You just have to keep going. Run, lift, meditate, keep a gratitude journal but just keep going.

You expect someone else to fight your battles? Of course nobody cares. You have to make them care. It takes a lot of effort to get a message heard by people, to make any kind of change. A lot of work, and a lot of humiliation. If you don't want to do it, fine, but, as the (I think) Chinese saying says, the one who does not think it can be done should not be interrupting those doing it. (Well, not much is being done in this particular case, but I like the saying...)