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Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

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Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#101

Post by shpx »

Karunamon wrote: post #75
shpx wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mozilla's entire mission statement is contrary to Eich's stated beliefs https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/mission/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/details/ Their mission statement is to create an open internet. To suggest that the people that made him leave cared about a culture fit at a company the didn't work at is ludicrous.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/governance/policies/part... "Mozilla-based activities should be inclusive and should support such diversity." Okay. If Eich was still there, this must logically be followed with: "..Nevermind that one C-level guy over there who took positive action to deny some of you rights, this absolutely will not impact anything in any way and we as a company still hold these views of diversity…

> nobody can silo their beliefs

So we need to stop discrimination before it happens? How do you feel about implementing some pre-crime measures nation-wide? As soon as he started advocating some anti-gay hiring policies, or rejecting pull requests from transvestites, then the consequences would've made sense to me.

Though that's an idealist view, in reality letting him stay would've been interpreted as an endorsment by all the people making a huge fuss about it, in my ideal world no one would've cared to begin with.

Instead of adding to their CPG you should've actually read the parts that don't agree with your view

> Some Mozillians may identify with activities or organizations that do not support the same inclusion and diversity standards as Mozilla

Diversity and inclusion should mean including people who don't agree with diversity and inclusion.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#102

Post by venomsnake »

enknamel wrote: post #49
bobajeff wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left Internet Explorer for Firefox because I was unsatisfied and jumped to the first viable alternative. I left Firefox for Chrome for the same reason. I'll jump to the next viable alternative as soon as it's available.

You would think that but chrome is much more insidious than other browsers. I can log in to chrome on all my devices and share bookmarks, apps, sessions, passwords, etc. That makes me a sticky chrome user because I lose all that functionality if I ever switch.

Writing a custom version of chrome that can export those things is trivial :) If there is demand, there will be solution provided.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#103

Post by notsony »

icebraining wrote: post #95
DCKing wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. This is the same Mozilla that promoted installing Adobe Flash for internet video since its very inception. If you're really such a purist, they should have been your enemy all along. Nothing has changed, and the conclusion is nowhere near as dramatic as you're making it sound. The suggestion that Mozilla implemented this for market share reasons is also incredibly unsubstantiated and ignores the very obvious…

I don't disagree that Mozilla was never a purist organization, but I think the suggestion is well substantiated. From the post announcing it: "With most competing browsers and the content industry embracing the W3C EME specification, Mozilla has little choice but to implement EME as well so our users can continue to access all content they want to enjoy. (…) We have come to the point where Mozilla not implementing th…

One could argue Mozilla was quite purist when they ejected Brendan Eich because his personal beliefs were not shared by fellow employees... but more on that later.

Perhaps the real reason Brendan Eich was thrown out of Mozilla was because he didn't embrace DRM and EME? Given his stature as founder of Mozilla and creator of Javascript, he could have posed a significant roadblock if he had decided to reject EME's inclusion in Firefox.

If you put on your tinfoil hat, recall that Brendan's donation to Prop 8 was public information for several years... before it suddenly became an issue.

>"So long as people want Hollywood movies, and Hollywood is used to getting its way, and DRM vendors are pushing to perpetuate this and codify it, and put it under a fig leaf from the W3C, we have a real problem.".

http://www.computerworlduk.com/blogs/open-enterprise/brendan...

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#105

Post by codexon »

shmerl wrote: post #79
mike-cardwell wrote: post #18

And here is the end result of people leaving Firefox for Chrome. You neutered Mozilla. There is no longer a browser vendor which has both your interests in heart and sufficient power to direct the evolution of the web. Who now gets to choose which features are built into the majority of desktop and mobile browsers? Advertising companies.

Blame Netflix for this garbage. And if you use their service, you can stop as well.

Why not blame youtube as well?

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#106

Post by Karunamon »

shpx wrote: post #101
Karunamon wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/governance/policies/part... "Mozilla-based activities should be inclusive and should support such diversity." Okay. If Eich was still there, this must logically be followed with: "..Nevermind that one C-level guy over there who took positive action to deny some of you rights, this absolutely will not impact anything in any way and we as a company still hold these views of diversity…

> nobody can silo their beliefs So we need to stop discrimination before it happens? How do you feel about implementing some pre-crime measures nation-wide? As soon as he started advocating some anti-gay hiring policies, or rejecting pull requests from transvestites, then the consequences would've made sense to me. Though that's an idealist view, in reality letting him stay would've been interpreted as an endorsment…

I'm having a really hard time writing this without snark, so forgive me if any of it comes through:

In reality letting him stay would've been interpreted as an endorsement by all the people making a huge fuss about it

Those people "making a huge fuss about it" were denied equal rights for an additional six years thanks, in part, to Eich. Are you suggesting they should have just shut up? Where do you draw the line?

Diversity and inclusion should mean including people who don't agree with diversity and inclusion.

We're going to have to disagree on that. Rights are rights - I don't see how tolerating someone who thinks gays are inferior is one whit different than tolerating someone who thinks blacks or women are inferior.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#107

Post by Karunamon »

xirdstl wrote: post #74
Karunamon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you foresee a negotiation with someone's core values progressing? There's a fundamental incompatibility there, not just something that can be talked and reasoned around. You personally, the guy typing the letters into this box, what do you think the outcome of such a "negotiation" would be if it were as successful as humanly possible? At the end of the day, Mozilla's entire mission statement is contrary to Eic…

Which mission statement is that? I thought their mission was specific to the Internet and open source software.

"Mission statement" was incorrect. Please mentally replace that phrase with "community guidelines and company history".

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#108

Post by Karunamon »

notsony wrote: post #103
icebraining wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree that Mozilla was never a purist organization, but I think the suggestion is well substantiated. From the post announcing it: "With most competing browsers and the content industry embracing the W3C EME specification, Mozilla has little choice but to implement EME as well so our users can continue to access all content they want to enjoy. (…) We have come to the point where Mozilla not implementing th…

One could argue Mozilla was quite purist when they ejected Brendan Eich because his personal beliefs were not shared by fellow employees... but more on that later. Perhaps the real reason Brendan Eich was thrown out of Mozilla was because he didn't embrace DRM and EME? Given his stature as founder of Mozilla and creator of Javascript, he could have posed a significant roadblock if he had decided to reject EME's inclu…

This is an interesting theory and given what we know how how hollywood works in the backroom, plausible, but there are no facts to support it.

Eich was not "thrown out of mozilla". The board knew about his donation and appointed him anyways - the pressure for him to resign came from the community and Mozilla employees.

Hollywood is great at fomenting outrage, but not that much and not in that way :)

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#109

Post by contravariant »

callahad wrote: post #91
eps wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*some. Being vocal/hysterical about something doesn't imply it's a dominant opinion.

According to the Pew Research Center's polling, most Americans are in favor of marriage equality, and have been since 2011: http://www.pewforum.org/2014/09/24/graphics-slideshow-changi...

There's a difference between being in favour of something and being offended by anyone who disagrees.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#110

Post by magicalist »

codexon wrote: post #105
shmerl wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame Netflix for this garbage. And if you use their service, you can stop as well.

Why not blame youtube as well?

Media Source Extensions (MSE)[1] were added for YouTube HTML5 video, and is different from Encrypted Media Extensions (EME)[2], which is what allows DRMed videos.

MSE allows things like adaptive bitrate while streaming and programmable video buffering without a plugin.

[1] https://w3c.github.io/media-source/

[2] https://w3c.github.io/encrypted-media/

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