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Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

unitedstatescourts.org

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Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#181

Post by tedunangst »

belorn wrote: post #178
tedunangst wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Lenovo release an update that removed the program? The relevant question for the court is probably, how many hundreds of dollars did the average Lenovo customer spend on professional Superfish removal? And the answer is probably zero.

Having read several court cases, I can say I have never seen the court trying to answer the question about how much the average victim would spend on repairs. Its not a question easily answered or find evidence for, and the court do not have the ability to send out a survey. What I do normally see is the court looking for guidelines regarding damages, and here the relevant question would be what a average person woul…

> the relevant question would be what a average person would have to pay in order to remove the malware and restore damages

And since the malware has already been removed at no cost, the actual, not just hypothetical, answer to that question is zero.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#182

Post by tedunangst »

nekopa wrote: post #168
pekk wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will continue to order as many Lenovo machines as I need. It is more important to me that the vendor serves my needs than what HN thinks about them. I'm not buying something crappy for my purposes because HN is mad.

This is a strange comment. Most people I see on HN like Lenovo because of the quality of their machines. Where I can see a purchasing manager or head of IT against them at the moment is because they surreptitiously installed software which caused a security risk. If you're fine with your company's data possibly being compromised in the future then continue your ordering from Lenovo. I will still buy from them because…

What makes it a strange comment? Aren't the two of you saying the same thing?

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#183

Post by downandout »

bradleyjg wrote: post #55

A year or eighteen months from now look for a settlement in the case. Each of the affected class members will be entitled to a $5 discount on an anti-virus product plus up to $25 if they can provide detailed documentation showing actual economic losses. Any money left over after the coupons and payments are made will be given to a charity hand picked by the plaintiff's attorney. There will also be injunctive relief i…

>The class attorneys will be awarded $4 million

I think you are drastically underestimating this. $4M likely won't cover the bill for making copies of the discovery. Firms in similarly underwhelming class action cases have received $50M-$100M.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#184

Post by mwfunk »

Animats wrote: post #120
acdha wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft's trying to create a premium “Signature Edition” category with that as the selling point: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signatur...

That's funny. Take a look at that link. Microsoft, itself, is talking about how crappy their own product is in its normally delivered form.

I would call it "honesty", and it's very refreshing that they not only acknowledge the problem but offer a solution. Making fun of them for this is punishing good behavior and providing ammo to any number of marketing people at MS who would rather the company never admit that anything is wrong, ever.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#185

Post by JupiterMoon »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #172
mhurron wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 18 months no one will remember this. Honestly, corporations face basically no repercussions from customers because of doing stupid or outright malicious things.

Sony's been on my "do not buy" list since the rootkit debacle. They're missing out on sales of video games, cameras, and other consumer electronics (not to mention music and movies) for their misbehavior. And I know I'm not the only one who remembers.

You are not the only one.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#186

Post by JupiterMoon »

xorcist wrote: post #85
pavs wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people who actually cared about the superfish incident will remember this, and thats where it counts and where it will hurt. Everyday joe couldn't care less about superfish.

It's a relevant question whether enough people care. The Sony rootkit scandal was (almost) as bad as this, yet it didn't make a dent in their computer sales and the Playstation sold better than ever.

Any yet their e-reader business failed. And they don't seem to have done so well on mp3 players (they were big money for other companies a few years ago). Their phone sales are weak compared to other companies with a similar product.

The thing these companies miss is that non-tech people ask their tech friends/family before purchasing new things... So piss off a few 100,000 of the techy people and that can translate over the next few years to millions of lost sales.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#187

Post by nivla »

Animats wrote: post #120
acdha wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft's trying to create a premium “Signature Edition” category with that as the selling point: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signatur...

That's funny. Take a look at that link. Microsoft, itself, is talking about how crappy their own product is in its normally delivered form.

Its wasn't that they were totally oblivious to the fact that junk/crapware were bundled with their OS, it was that they couldn't have a say in it because then that would be deemed as an anti-trust violation. Antitrust laws are really good to encourage competition but it also has side effects like this.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#188

Post by ticviking »

superuser2 wrote: post #99
rayiner wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably, although I'll note that cy pres awards are under intense scrutiny these days in the various Courts of Appeal. Besides that, is the result unfair here? Did the average claimant even suffer $5 in economic losses?

Yes. People spent $700 on what were supposed to be their own computers, following their own wills. In fact they got computers which ignore their instructions (i.e. to fetch a webpage) and instead fetch the modified version that Lenovo's partners want them to see. The computers are not their own, they are Lenovo's. Full refunds are in order.

Good luck separating from the class and pursuing the claim in court. Though honestly you might have a shot if the hardware is something you could push in your local small claims. Think the "windows refund"

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#189

Post by bonyt »

btilly wrote: post #83
bradleyjg wrote: post #55

A year or eighteen months from now look for a settlement in the case. Each of the affected class members will be entitled to a $5 discount on an anti-virus product plus up to $25 if they can provide detailed documentation showing actual economic losses. Any money left over after the coupons and payments are made will be given to a charity hand picked by the plaintiff's attorney. There will also be injunctive relief i…

This is true, but do you know why it happens? The US has a protection against double jeopardy. If you've been sued once for something, you cannot be sued again (and again, and again) for the same thing. In most cases this is a good thing. It means that once the case is done, it is really done. But companies have learned how to take advantage of it. If they think they are going to have to fight a class action lawsuit…

That's not double jeopardy - double jeopardy is a criminal law concept, and we're talking about civil lawsuits.

You can be sued for the same act by multiple people, though you can't be sued BY THE SAME PARTY for that same act multiple times under a doctrine called res judicata.

You can usually opt out of a class action, and then sue again on your own - and you're entitled to your day in court to assert the claim against them. Though, since most people don't opt out, a class action does provide a way to settle the case with the vast majority of potential claimants.

If the defendant LOST the earlier case, they may even be precluded from re-litigating any issues resolved in it (and, by extension, prevented from defending themselves substantively). Though in some situations, like if it were easy for the claimant to join the earlier lawsuit, this may not be so. See Parklane Hosiery Co. v. Shore, 439 U.S. 322 (1979).

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