I wonder how much training sushi chefs had when it was first invented during the Edo period. Sushi then was a cheap fast food you ate with your hands, and for a long time only a part-time side business for chefs who worked with other foods.
Why is the education of a sushi chef so insanely long?
41–50 of 57 posts
Re: Why is the education of a sushi chef so insanely long?
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure if you're referring to medical education in the United States. If you are, individuals who ultimately care for patients must complete college (4 years), medical school (>4 years), and a residency program (3+ years). Thus, training to be a physician in the US would require at least 11 years, of which at least five (the last five) would involve extensive patient contact.
technically, an undergrad degree isn't required, only a handful of courses whether you'd actually get admitted without one is an exercise for the reader
I'm not aware of any accredited, MD-granting US medical school that don't require an undergraduate degree prior to matriculation - do you have examples?
There are accelerated bachelors+MD programs that high schoolers can apply to; these would shave off two years of overall training time. Notably, despite being accelerated programs, these grant a bachelors degree before program participants advance to medical school.
Re: Why is the education of a sushi chef so insanely long?
#43Programming should be like this. When you're in your twenties thinking you know everything you should have have an old master slapping you on the writs telling you that even if you think you are - you actually are not ready building real systems yet. ;-)
I don't think programming is any different. It takes years and years to build an intuition for what works and what doesn't, to develop the theoretical knowledge that allows you to immediately know when your problem can be solved by a well-known algorithm (or when your problem has already been reduced to the halting problem!), to be able to predict from observation where the root of a bug will be found, etc. You have to read a lot of code and write a lot of code to be able to develop taste.
Re: Why is the education of a sushi chef so insanely long?
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably because there is more than just nigiri on the menu... and there is more than one kind of fish, etc.
Yeah I get that, and of course I'm just picking at just one example. But if you watch the Jiro movie, there's an apprentice who spends a full year just learning to beat an octopus. His job for one year is simply to beat an octopus to learn how to tenderize the meat. The same goes for making sushi rice. Why do these chefs have to dedicate themselves for a year to learn how to make rice when surely it can be taught in…
Because they're not going for "minimal palatable difference", they're going for "perfect".
Re: Why is the education of a sushi chef so insanely long?
#45Can a blinded panel pick out top quality sushi? I hear sommeliers can't do so for wine, often failing to do well even at identifying red versus white. My first cynical guess for why the education is so long is that customers will pay more for it, regardless of whether or not the product itself benefits. Then again, I barely eat sushi.
Would you be able to tell apart a pizza from a top italian restaurant and a microwaved instant pizza? The differences between top-grade sushi and bad sushi are just as obvious, you really don't need to be an expert.
By the way, in japan there is a highly developed market for fish with many levels of quality, so the expensive restaurants get the best parts of the best fish and the leftovers end up in cheaper places.
Re: Why is the education of a sushi chef so insanely long?
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
technically, an undergrad degree isn't required, only a handful of courses whether you'd actually get admitted without one is an exercise for the reader
I'm not aware of any accredited, MD-granting US medical school that don't require an undergraduate degree prior to matriculation - do you have examples? There are accelerated bachelors+MD programs that high schoolers can apply to; these would shave off two years of overall training time. Notably, despite being accelerated programs, these grant a bachelors degree before program participants advance to medical school.
Technically, most US medical schools don't require an undergraduate degree. However, the amount of coursework required is so large (about 3 years) that it makes sense to do a little bit extra work and get the BS anyway. It's good to have a BS degree in case you don't get into medical school.
Re: Why is the education of a sushi chef so insanely long?
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Older programmers may not know the latest hip language and frameworks, but are closer to the essence of their craft. Past experiences open the mind to patterns and ways of doing the 20yo code monkey can't quite conceive yet.
And 20 year olds have a perspective of the world that older generations can't appreciate. Who's to say which has more value? We shouldn't glorify youth or age, just quality.
That may simply be because they know better ;-)
Re: Why is the education of a sushi chef so insanely long?
#48It's only "insane" by myopic Western/American standards. Look at the martial arts of Japan (Judo, Jujitsu) where to earn a black belt--which is traditionally not the end of learning but merely symbolizes understanding of the basics--takes at least 10 years of dedicated study. Since martial arts began to be "Americanized" in the ~1980s, we now see black belts handed out to 8 year old children after a year or two of st…
It's insane because it covers a very narrow range of topics. We make people doctors after 8 years of study, only a few of which involve actual practice.
The entire point of the Quora answer (by a sushi chef of 14 years) is that there is a limitless depth of knowledge for what at first glance might appear to be a "narrow range of topics".
I mean sushi is just cutting fish right? Just like programming is just typing instructions into a computer, or painting is just smearing pigments on a surface. Nothing to it. :)
Re: Why is the education of a sushi chef so insanely long?
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
When you don't know, the fastest way to learn is to find someone who does know, and ask them. If one sushi chef likes another chef's sushi, why doesn't the one just ask the other how to make it? Because of social reasons?
They probably do, but I also imagine that a lot of things just can't be taught and instead come from experience. For example, I used to train with an Olympic gold medalist in badminton, and he would tell me that the thing I really need to bring my playing to the next level is to be able to take risks and gamble by predicting what the opponent was going to do. The theory made complete sense: you just need to be able t…
I can understand part of it is muscle memory, and part is experience in the space.
To compare with welding: Seasoned welders discuss heating and cooling a weld, pulling from top or bottom, dragging this molten liquid around the narrow crack between metal pieces, and how using different techniques can fine-tune a weld, making it easier to grind and make invisible.
From another angle, at 40 hours per week, it takes over 4.5 years to hit the mythical 10,000 hours. And so 5 years is usually a reasonable benchmark for mastery of any profession of tasks.
Probably at least some of this is marketing - an 8-year sushi chef is probably only marginally better than a 3rd year sushi chef, and most non-connoisseurs would have trouble telling the differences between their creations.
Re: Why is the education of a sushi chef so insanely long?
#50Can a blinded panel pick out top quality sushi? I hear sommeliers can't do so for wine, often failing to do well even at identifying red versus white. My first cynical guess for why the education is so long is that customers will pay more for it, regardless of whether or not the product itself benefits. Then again, I barely eat sushi.
> Can a blinded panel pick out top quality sushi? Since fish can vary from practically tasteless to overpowering, it probably depends on the type of fish. But I've seen people can eat sushi and tell you the exact temperature based on the flavor. Or what part of the ocean the fish came from based on the flavor. Those are pretty objective metrics. Then there's also the whole "people end up in the hospital if you screw…
> Or what part of the ocean the fish came from based on the flavor
I can tell you what part of the ocean any fish came from too: The watery part. It's true, but not very useful. Other than that kind of statement, how do you know what they say is true?
It reminds me of the Shakespeare quote about the vasty deep:
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them?