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Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

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31–40 of 252 posts

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#31
It's not often that I have the opportunity to feel proud of the legislators in my home country, but Portugal has been on the leading edge of drug prevention and rehabilitation since we moved from a "war on drugs" to a program of health risk prevention and removed the weight of criminal charges and proceedings from the equation.

Some interesting articles below:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/03/portugal-drug-decri...

http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-...

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#33
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And coffee! Seriously, you don't know what you're missing!

Or why not just sleep and have some dreams? People act like losing consciousness to hours of vivid hallucinations is unnatural. We have rooms and furniture dedicated to it. "This lovely house has 2 bathrooms and 3 hallucinations chambers - to prepare you for work!" Make sure to get 8 hours of delirium in darkness every day to promote a healthy lifestyle.

The relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/203/

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#34
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug usage goes hand in hand with theft. Once you're addicted to drugs, you have to steal to pay for that habit. It's hardly a victimless crime.

I started writing a sensible reply to this and couldn't It's outrageous. 'Drug use goes hand in hand with theft' Do you know how ignorant that sounds? Caffeine and alcohol are drugs, do they go hand in hand with theft? Is everyone legally smoking weed in Colorado a thief too? 'Once you're addicted to drugs, you have to steal to pay for that habit.' Not all drugs are addictive. Most are less addictive than alcohol, ne…

Reality steps in and it's bad. In Russia drug addicts were (and still are, to lesser extent) responsible for very large if not largest portion of crime, especially burglary and theft. It is a major problem, it is there and you can't go around it. And usage isn't punishable here, only distribution. So, don't dismiss parent comment so easily.

'Caffeine and alcohol are drugs' - yes, alcohol comes hand in hand with theft and other crimes.

'It's exactly a victimless crime' - it's victimless short term, but if it's hard drugs addict, there will be victims sooner or later. They will do nasty things just to get next dose.

And I support claim that war on drugs is wrong, and you can't win it (for economical reasons). But usage should be controllable.

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#35
post #26

I'm surprised they don't also cite the first war against drugs (actualy, a drug) - prohibition. Exactly the same scenario played out then as is, hopefully, coming to it's inevitable conclusion now in the 'western hemisphere'. If the same thing is starting up again in the East, it's going to be a bloody and chaotic few decades to come before the same lesson gets learned the third time over. Fortunately we do have a la…

I don't understand why the campaigns against alcohol have been so unsuccessful. It is amazing that so many people have no issue with losing control mentally under the influence of alcohol and those same people think it is scary that I would like to try LSD.

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or why not just sleep and have some dreams? People act like losing consciousness to hours of vivid hallucinations is unnatural. We have rooms and furniture dedicated to it. "This lovely house has 2 bathrooms and 3 hallucinations chambers - to prepare you for work!" Make sure to get 8 hours of delirium in darkness every day to promote a healthy lifestyle.

The acts themselves aren't; introducing external, man-made chemicals to invoke those are usually unnatural though - as in, the body doesn't make them themselves in such quantities. You know what I mean. Recreational drugs shouldn't be a problem though, as long as the user is aware of its effects and doesn't go overboard. Heavier stuff like heroin should remain illegal though.

Why should heroin remain illegal? People consume heroin like crazy in hospitals and very few become addicted.

Why keep it illegal? Why not heavily control it. Do something along the lines of; if you want to use heroin recreationally you must also attend 10 counselling sessions at your own cost to reduce the possibility of addiction.

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#38
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started writing a sensible reply to this and couldn't It's outrageous. 'Drug use goes hand in hand with theft' Do you know how ignorant that sounds? Caffeine and alcohol are drugs, do they go hand in hand with theft? Is everyone legally smoking weed in Colorado a thief too? 'Once you're addicted to drugs, you have to steal to pay for that habit.' Not all drugs are addictive. Most are less addictive than alcohol, ne…

Reality steps in and it's bad. In Russia drug addicts were (and still are, to lesser extent) responsible for very large if not largest portion of crime, especially burglary and theft. It is a major problem, it is there and you can't go around it. And usage isn't punishable here, only distribution. So, don't dismiss parent comment so easily. 'Caffeine and alcohol are drugs' - yes, alcohol comes hand in hand with theft…

>> In Russia drug addicts were (and still are, to lesser extent) responsible for very large if not largest portion of crime, especially burglary and theft ... So, don't dismiss parent comment so easily.

My issues with the parent comment are not that addicts never steal, it's the ignorance of lumping all drug use into the same category and then saying 'drugs' make you steal.

It's the same in the UK - addicts of one sort or another do disproportionately make up the crime figures. However the proportion of drug users who are addicts is small and the proportion of addicts that steal is small so saying that drugs and theft go hand in hand is just plain wrong.

>> yes, alcohol comes hand in hand with theft and other crimes.

Again, a tiny proportion of drinkers may cause a problem, this is not the same as saying they go hand in hand, implying anyone who has a drink is going to get addicted and steal stuff to support their habit.

>> it's victimless short term, but if it's hard drugs addict, there will be victims sooner or later. They will do nasty things just to get next dose.

Firstly, we're now talking about a subset of drugs, rather than trying to tar all drug users as thieves. Secondly, in a situation where the government treats heroin as a health issue this doesn't occur. Switzerland basically killed this stuff and proved that heroin addicts could lead quite a normal life if they knew where the next dose was coming from - a government clinic in this case. And there's nothing like a queue of old junkies outside a medical facility to put the youth off heroin.

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or why not just sleep and have some dreams? People act like losing consciousness to hours of vivid hallucinations is unnatural. We have rooms and furniture dedicated to it. "This lovely house has 2 bathrooms and 3 hallucinations chambers - to prepare you for work!" Make sure to get 8 hours of delirium in darkness every day to promote a healthy lifestyle.

The acts themselves aren't; introducing external, man-made chemicals to invoke those are usually unnatural though - as in, the body doesn't make them themselves in such quantities. You know what I mean. Recreational drugs shouldn't be a problem though, as long as the user is aware of its effects and doesn't go overboard. Heavier stuff like heroin should remain illegal though.

Many people who get on heroin got there because of an initial self-medication for some underlying issue. Heroin usage was rampant in Vietnam. Once the troops came back, the heroin use went away. Opioids aren't simple drugs.

For the "addicts", the primary problem is not the drug - it's the prohibitive acrobatics to mental health care, medication, and ongoing maintenance. No wonder why most people on methadone (mu-opioid maintenance) are below the poverty line - they didn't get adequate help early enough.

The minuscule percentage of psychiatric practitioners who accept the government health plans place them on separate low-priority waiting lists.

Street drugs are more accessible and affordable because we are just that stunningly bad at providing effective on-going psychiatry to the poor.

We've chosen to criminalize the victims of this catastrophic failure and claim they are at fault for not succeeding with a system they can't afford, don't have access to, and doesn't want them.

Re: Illegal drugs: The wars don’t work

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or why not just sleep and have some dreams? People act like losing consciousness to hours of vivid hallucinations is unnatural. We have rooms and furniture dedicated to it. "This lovely house has 2 bathrooms and 3 hallucinations chambers - to prepare you for work!" Make sure to get 8 hours of delirium in darkness every day to promote a healthy lifestyle.

The acts themselves aren't; introducing external, man-made chemicals to invoke those are usually unnatural though - as in, the body doesn't make them themselves in such quantities. You know what I mean. Recreational drugs shouldn't be a problem though, as long as the user is aware of its effects and doesn't go overboard. Heavier stuff like heroin should remain illegal though.

Heroin is one of the most harmful drugs to the user[1]. Its usage should not be encouraged by anybody, but heroin should absolutely be legal, heavily regulated, but legal. The VAST majority of heroin related deaths are just that, related to heroin but not caused by it.

Heroin is actually a remarkably safe drug in a clinical context, it does almost no long term damage. The main problems with it are that it is highly addictive, users rapidly develop a very high tolerance and it is fatal in overdose. Heroin overdose is very easy to treat, there is a antidote to heroin called Naloxone. If administered in time, it will almost certainly save the life of somebody who is overdosing on heroin.

People who use heroin die because they share needles and contract diseases such as HIV/AIDS. People who use heroin die because they do not use clean needles and get sepsis when they inject. People who use heroin die because they do not have pure heroin.

Heroin can be cut with both active and inactive substances. Some of the inactive substances used are toxic, they make accurate dosing, which is critical to using a drug with such a low ratio between fatal dose and active dose safely. Active cuts such as Fentanyl are equally dangerous[2], they make it impossible for the user to accurately dose.

I am not calling for heroin to be sold in super markets or off licences. What I am suggesting however is that for anybody who wants it, they can go to some sort of health center, be lectured about the harms, taught how to inject properly and how to administer Naloxone in an overdose situation and then be given a licence to buy heroin. The heroin would then be dispensed by pharmacies, it would come with an adequate supply of needles, Naloxone. Most importantly the heroin would be pure and unadulterated, in solution already.

There is now a much lower risk of overdose as it is far easier for a user to dose themselves. The heroin does not come with dangerous cuts. They will have an adequate supply of needles so there will be less needle sharing and less infectious disease[3].

The obvious argument against this radical approach is that it would increase heroin usage. There is no precedent for this kind of program so I cannot refute that claim with any certainty. From intuition however, I do not think there are many people where the only thing holding them back from using the drug is the current prohibition. I have not met a single person who has said "If heroin was legal I might start doing it". What I do know is under our current system of prohibition heroin usage has increased, deaths associated from it our sky-rocketing in recent years and the politicians current answer to the crises is harsher punishment for users and dealers despite that in the past, heavier punishments do not correlate with either lower use or less deaths. It is time to try something radically different, I would love to see a trial of this sort of system somewhere in the world.

[1] http://www.sg.unimaas.nl/_OLD/oudelezingen/dddsd.pdf [2] http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/rash-of-fatal-overdos... [3] http://www.who.int/hiv/pub/prev_care/effectivenesssterilenee...

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