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What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

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Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#101

Post by mreiland »

vcxzxcv wrote: post #70
stegosaurus wrote: post #9

I attended an elite UK university having had a poor upbringing. This article reads painfully to me. I don't have the words to describe why, but I can try. The closest I can come is to say that this idea of inclusiveness is terminally broken. It's a sort of bandage over a huge chasm of differences. For a poor person to become wealthy requires them to discard their baggage. Change the accent, the clothes, the pop cultu…

Thanks for this post. I'm debating applying to a state University right now. Coming from a poor background (and still being poor) I find it hard to relate to a lot of my peers. You speak of "dropping baggage", and for me, this is next to impossible because of my poor dental health. As soon as I open my mouth people assume I must be some meth head. My mom has dementia and can barely take care of her self and my dad is…

It's worth saving up the money to fix the teeth. It's less expensive to pay for the work yourself than to avoid the cost.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#102

Post by taurath »

jacquesm wrote: post #63
jheriko wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

true. its one to take carefully with consideration.... have you met many rich people who spend like there is no tomorrow? its about acting like a /rich person/ not as if you have a limitless supply of money and are actually rich. :)

Not the person you asked but: I have met people that became wealthy and acted like you describe and they usually ended up broke some years or decades later. I've also met some extremely wealthy people and they in fact were visually very modest (but worth more money than one could spend in a lifetime). The contrast runs something like this: German dude, worth $10M made his money in real estate, started an online compa…

Thats an example of new money vs old money. Those with old money tend to have a lot less anxiety about what they actually spend, because they know all their needs will be provided. New money is still under the illusion that the fancier things will make them happier.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#103

Post by dpiers »

vcxzxcv wrote: post #70
stegosaurus wrote: post #9

I attended an elite UK university having had a poor upbringing. This article reads painfully to me. I don't have the words to describe why, but I can try. The closest I can come is to say that this idea of inclusiveness is terminally broken. It's a sort of bandage over a huge chasm of differences. For a poor person to become wealthy requires them to discard their baggage. Change the accent, the clothes, the pop cultu…

Thanks for this post. I'm debating applying to a state University right now. Coming from a poor background (and still being poor) I find it hard to relate to a lot of my peers. You speak of "dropping baggage", and for me, this is next to impossible because of my poor dental health. As soon as I open my mouth people assume I must be some meth head. My mom has dementia and can barely take care of her self and my dad is…

I was in your situation 8 years ago. I decided to furlough my entrepreneurial endeavors and learn to code so I could get a high paying job with benefits and afford to get my teeth fixed. I went to a state school, hustled my way into the game industry and later the startup world, and have gotten +$40k in dental work done over the last 4 years.

It's not always easy, but if you're smart and work hard, it gets better. If I could have given myself advice back then, I would've told myself not to be afraid of medical loans or dental schools. I've had ~22k in work done at a really nice dental school in SF that would have cost +50k at private practice. The sooner you get in there, the less it will cost in the long run (trust me).

Also, regardless of the current state of your teeth, every day is still a battle for your oral health. Brush after meals and floss regularly. Email me (link in profile) and I'll hook you up with a Sonicare toothbrush.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#104

Post by taurath »

kelukelugames wrote: post #13
stegosaurus wrote: post #9

I attended an elite UK university having had a poor upbringing. This article reads painfully to me. I don't have the words to describe why, but I can try. The closest I can come is to say that this idea of inclusiveness is terminally broken. It's a sort of bandage over a huge chasm of differences. For a poor person to become wealthy requires them to discard their baggage. Change the accent, the clothes, the pop cultu…

> For a poor person to become wealthy requires them to discard their baggage. Yes! Thank you for using the perfect word for how I feel. I'm sure rich people have "rich people baggage" but I believe they are either a) not a deal blocker or b) mitigated by their advantages. Edit: I have a few 1% friends. As far as I can tell, rich people baggage is usually complaining about money.

Rich people baggage comes out whenever they don't have full control of a situation.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#105

Post by cperciva »

learnstats2 wrote: post #98
cperciva wrote: post #57

This very much reminds me of my time in Oxford. I was there on a Commonwealth scholarship (referred to by many at the time as "Rhodes light") which paid for my tuition plus about £550/month of living expenses; this was enough to keep me alive, but it certainly wasn't generous. My friends were very obviously split into two groups -- poorer students from state schools who were first-generation Oxbridge attendees, and r…

>but financially I was far closer to the first-generation students I suggest you have understated your relative wealth. UK students at Oxford today are entitled to £478/month living expense (in 2015 money), which they get mostly as a student loan, to be repaid. Taking into account inflation, or looking at the equivalent scholarship today, I believe you were almost twice as well-off as the typical student from a poore…

You may be somewhat under-stating your relative wealth.

I was better off than most of the first-generation students, but not dramatically so.

Students today are entitled to £478/month living expense (in 2015 money), which they get mostly as a student loan.

The Oxford University website says that students typically spend between £951 and £1,405 per month on living expenses. When I arrived in Oxford (in 2001) I was told that students typically spent around £650/month (the scholarship administrator was very apologetic about the value of the living allowance).

I haven't been in the UK for over a decade, so I'm not familiar with the state of student financial aid, but from what you've said I suspect that either the government bursaries/loans have gotten smaller or they were being supplemented by significant University and College awards.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#106

Post by sliverstorm »

dsp1234 wrote: post #51
spiritplumber wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boot…

Obviously a side note, but I did a test on a topic similar to this. My SO convinced me to try out a custom shoe place (highly reviewed, and recommended) on the theory that if I was only going to buy one pair of shoes, that I should at least have a quality pair to wear around. The results from that (sole) experiment were that the shoes lasted longer but not so much so that they beat out multiple pairs of cheaper shoes…

1 - good shoes outlast the soles, and can be resoled

2 - the modern world has dramatically increased the price-per-quality on the cheap stuff, shrinking the gap

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#107

Post by taurath »

letitgo12345 wrote: post #52

Hmm I went to an Ivy League school. Maybe it was the company I hung out with but there was never really any talk of how rich anyone's background was (in fact it was kind of taboo) -- the same way no one ever talked about what their SAT scores were. It seemed petty. There were several well off kids in my social circle (though not mega rich or anything) but there wasn't really any flaunting of wealth. In fact, many of…

Its more about what you do on spring break, on weekends, when not in class, that sort of thing. Those who can afford expensive outings naturally drift away from those who can't.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#108

Post by vcxzxcv »

dpiers wrote: post #103
vcxzxcv wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for this post. I'm debating applying to a state University right now. Coming from a poor background (and still being poor) I find it hard to relate to a lot of my peers. You speak of "dropping baggage", and for me, this is next to impossible because of my poor dental health. As soon as I open my mouth people assume I must be some meth head. My mom has dementia and can barely take care of her self and my dad is…

I was in your situation 8 years ago. I decided to furlough my entrepreneurial endeavors and learn to code so I could get a high paying job with benefits and afford to get my teeth fixed. I went to a state school, hustled my way into the game industry and later the startup world, and have gotten +$40k in dental work done over the last 4 years. It's not always easy, but if you're smart and work hard, it gets better. If…

Thanks for the offer! I actually was able to buy a pretty nice electric toothbrush a little while ago with a coupon I found online.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#109

Post by matthewowen »

stegosaurus wrote: post #9

I attended an elite UK university having had a poor upbringing. This article reads painfully to me. I don't have the words to describe why, but I can try. The closest I can come is to say that this idea of inclusiveness is terminally broken. It's a sort of bandage over a huge chasm of differences. For a poor person to become wealthy requires them to discard their baggage. Change the accent, the clothes, the pop cultu…

My experience of "an elite UK university" (quotes because I feel silly saying it) was different. Even amongst people from upper-middle class privileged backgrounds, I think there was a pretty large disparity between people whose parents gave them lots of money, and people whose parents expected them to live off their student loans entirely.

I'm not saying that there weren't wealthy people who spent absurd amounts of money. There were. But there were also plenty of people who budgeted aggressively, and made things like formal hall and pregaming before going to student clubnights on a Thursday night the highpoint of discretionary expenditure.

I don't come from a wealthy background. Because of when I started university, my parents were just outside the bracket that would have got be grants and bursaries (if I'd started a year later, they'd have been in it). Grew up in an ex-council house, dad worked down the mines, yadda yadda (I hate getting into the thing of "Look how working class MY upbringing was" but there you go). But I definitely didn't feel excluded. I suppose there probably were high-spending friendship groups that I didn't fit into. I can't say I felt like I missed out. You're never going to fit into every friendship group.

I'm assuming you went to Oxbridge. If not, maybe it is different. I certainly felt like there were a lot of fairly income independent activities that were applicable no matter your background. Pretty much everyone can go to formal hall, or to a bop, or even to events at the Union. At least in your first few years, those things are pretty central to social lives for a lot of students.

I don't know. I feel like my post is a little pointless: "I don't agree with your experience". Experiences aren't really up for debate. You experienced it, you felt it, it was real. I guess I just feel differently. Sometimes you have to say that.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#110

Post by hkmurakami »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #31

I don't think this is limited to schools. All through life you will find that there are people with more, or fewer, resources than you have and interactions may be adversely affected by that. The example of going out to dinner and then catching a movie is a good one. In a mid to large sized metropolitan area that is an expenditure of $40 - $100 (depending) and that can represent anywhere from .1% to 10% of a person's…

>Once they graduate they are very likely to be at least part of the "middle" and their kids the "upper middle".

This is an observation that I've come to as well, in that first generation success, no matter what level the financial success, will only move the person up maybe one notch in "class", because the old habits are hard to shake (this is both a good and bad thing).

The kids tend to be one notch farther up as a result of not having the extensive experience their parents went through. Again, for better or for worse.

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