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This man just claimed a new European nation. 160,000 people want to live there

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Re: This man just claimed a new European nation. 160,000 people want to live there

#91

Post by drzaiusapelord »

k__ wrote: post #51
tinco wrote: post #47

This country is also on the verge of having its first war. The Liberland flag has already been removed by another micro-nation that claims to have laid claim on the land just over a month earlier: http://www.paraduin.nl/?p=173 Unfortunately, the Paraduin people seem a bit nutty to me. An excerpt from their constitution, which is in Dutch: "Paraduin is een monarchie. De titel van de monarch is prins(es), voluit Prins(…

Something like this happend to this oilrig land "sealand". People think it's easy to found your own country. Just find unclaimed space and be done with it. But there are many rich people out in the world who would hire armies to kill for such a spot.

>But there are many rich people out in the world who would hire armies to kill for such a spot.

This is tribalism (or our modern version - nation states) in a nutshell. For all the hand wringing here about NSA SIGINT, defense spending, etc the reality is that the world is dangerous place. Not too long ago "liberal intellectuals", "russophiles," and "policy experts" were telling us how Russia was just going to eventually become a defacto if not outright EU member, would never invade a neighbor, never target civilians explicitly, never annex land, etc. These people forgot the golden rule of civilization: war happens.

Re: This man just claimed a new European nation. 160,000 people want to live there

#93

Post by collyw »

elmar wrote: post #88

The defining conception of the state is a monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force, also known as the monopoly on violence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

What about anarchist states? Does that make them an oxymoron?

Re: This man just claimed a new European nation. 160,000 people want to live there

#94

Post by emodendroket »

nashashmi wrote: post #73
tim333 wrote: post #54

> 160,000 people want to live there I just put my name down. It's a laugh. I'd probably be willing to fork over $30 for a passport. I don't actually want to live there. I suspect many of the 160,000 are similar. On a more serious note I could see an argument for setting up a new country that was open to all comers a bit like the US used to be when the "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to br…

You laugh at the concept of a passport but there are lots of people who don't have a passport at all and no citizenship to any country. They would like to be a citizen of one country or another. This might be a great way to do it.

A country that is recognized by no one? Probably not a "great way" to get a passport that's worth anything.

Re: This man just claimed a new European nation. 160,000 people want to live there

#95

Post by deong »

pjc50 wrote: post #61
kauffj wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but why should the "rest of the world sighs with relief"? Existing government is sub-optimal and competition tends to increase quality. Is there a special property of government service that makes this principle fail here?

Government is not a service. It nearly always provides services, but it also provides stability and a means of dealing with "negative externalities". Running a government with a particularly lax policy on fraud, pollution, etc. can easily export problems around the world.

Also, governments don't compete with each other in the same market. Australia and Denmark aren't trying to outdo each other in recruiting the same "customers".

We do sometimes see multiple governments competing in the same "markets". We usually call them "warlords" though, and it hasn't really worked out all that well for the people and lands being competed for.

Re: This man just claimed a new European nation. 160,000 people want to live there

#96

Post by LyndsySimon »

nashashmi wrote: post #73
tim333 wrote: post #54

> 160,000 people want to live there I just put my name down. It's a laugh. I'd probably be willing to fork over $30 for a passport. I don't actually want to live there. I suspect many of the 160,000 are similar. On a more serious note I could see an argument for setting up a new country that was open to all comers a bit like the US used to be when the "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to br…

You laugh at the concept of a passport but there are lots of people who don't have a passport at all and no citizenship to any country. They would like to be a citizen of one country or another. This might be a great way to do it.

There are also many people in the world with citizenship who would prefer that they not have it.

Likewise there are many people with citizenship who would prefer to be a citizen of another nation for the purposes of travel.

Re: This man just claimed a new European nation. 160,000 people want to live there

#97

Post by elmar »

collyw wrote: post #93
elmar wrote: post #88

The defining conception of the state is a monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force, also known as the monopoly on violence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

What about anarchist states? Does that make them an oxymoron?

The Anarchist model is based on communities, the concept of state doesn't exist.

Re: This man just claimed a new European nation. 160,000 people want to live there

#98

Post by jacquesm »

desireco42 wrote: post #76
dragonwriter wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just start a top level domain. Calling yourself a country doesn't make ICANN hand you a ccTLD, and there's not currently an open period for gTLDs, even if the people behind Liberland could get one if there were.

I understand that, still this is just opening of possibilities. EU wants to manage our thoughts, this guy is busting that trend, of course he is welcome.

> EU wants to manage our thoughts

What do you mean with that?

Re: This man just claimed a new European nation. 160,000 people want to live there

#99

Post by Retric »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #67
Retric wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In nobody owns most of Antarctica which is not exactly tiny. There is also a lot of effectively lawless land around the world.

> In nobody owns most of Antarctica which is not exactly tiny. But many countries, including most of the 'powers', have also signed treaties ensuring that no one can lay claim to Antarctica...

Nobody is going to stop you setting up a tent there. Creating a factory or even a city would be another issue, but as long as you think like a hobo an unenforced rule is meaningless. The same thing applies large stretches of the US let alone much of Afghanistan or other failed states.

PS: What most intellectual Anarchists want is high quality fertile land free for the taking. But, so does everyone else which is why it's not free in the first place. With some effort you could live in the middle of the ocean and never see another person. When you get down to it most of them really want to live with the benefits of government without paying for it.

Re: This man just claimed a new European nation. 160,000 people want to live there

#100

Post by [deleted] »

tinco wrote: post #84
inDigiNeous wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously ? Are you from the US? If so, I can understand where you're coming from. Maybe violence is not the answer, or have you thought about this possibility ? Their motto is "Live and Let Live", doesn't that tell you something ? Or maybe you're a professional pro-war troll?

If your countrymen hadn't killed 126.000 Russians, and maimed 180.000 more, you would now be governed by homophobic, corrupt and oppressive Vladimir Putin. I am not pro-war. I am not suggesting anyone should be attacked, but if you don't have the power to defend what you stand for, you will trampled by those who do. I am from the Netherlands. The only reason we exist is because the U.S. won the second world war, and…

[deleted]
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