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Travel in the USA Requires ID

neil.fraser.name

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Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#131

Post by FireBeyond »

rhino369 wrote: post #47
imglorp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three words: No Fly List. There is no transparency to that process, no way to find out if you're on it, no appeal, no recourse. That's tantamount to license to travel if not worse.

I don't really want to argue in support of the no-fly list because I think it is definitely unconstitutional (in current form), but it is still not a license to travel. It's a black list compared to a white list (travel papers). This makes a huge difference as the default is that you are allowed to travel. Instead of having to convince some bureaucrat that you should be allowed to travel, the government just blocks a…

No.

According to the Justice Department itself:

"Last fall, there were about 64,000 people on the no-fly list, according to the government. Typically, less than 5 percent of those on the list are Americans. The list fluctuates in size."

That's at least 3,000 American -citizens-. Many of those on the list are legal permanent residents, many more than citizens (as immigrants).

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#132

Post by mherdeg »

derekp7 wrote: post #84
mherdeg wrote: post #34

I think you can still travel long distances anonymously using a bicycle. Stephen King treats bikes as the canonical post-apocalyptic transit method — roads are too crowded with abandoned cars for automobile travel to be effective, and motorcycle travel is very dangerous (there is no ambulance if you have a high-speed accident). But you can do a hundred miles in a day on a bike. That's not bad. I've also never been as…

It's funny you mention that, because he doesn't bring up bicycles in several of his post-apocalypse books (I'm thinking of The Stand as one specific example -- the characters all walk from one end of the country to the other).

One of the passages I'm thinking of from The Stand:

==

Halfway there a thought rose to the surface of his mind like a bubble and popped. It happened casually, with no fanfare, but the implications brought him to a dead halt.

The thought was: Why haven't you been riding a bicycle?

He stood in the middle of the lawn, equidistant from the stream and the house, flabbergasted by the simplicity of it. He had been walking ever since he had ditched the Harley. Walking, wearing himself out, finally collapsing with sunstroke or something so close to it that it made no difference. And he could have been pedaling along, doing no more than a fast run if that's what he felt like, and he would probably be on the coast now, picking out his summer house and stocking it.

==

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#133

Post by CWuestefeld »

logfromblammo wrote: post #128
CWuestefeld wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "proving your identity" different in any meaningful way from "having an ID"?

In Anglo-American common law, your identity is basically whatever it is you call yourself, provided that you are not doing so with intent to defraud or otherwise facilitate unlawful activities. Most U.S. states still recognize a common law name change or assumed name. If James McGill uses the name "Saul Goodman" openly and notoriously in the course of his business, he could reasonably use either name, or both, to ide…

and the new name wouldn't fit on the card anyway

You wouldn't believe the trouble I've had to go through as a result of the State of New Jersey not being able to accommodate the length of the rather common name "Christopher".

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#134

Post by Frondo »

EpicEng wrote: post #130
Frondo wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you employ the violence of the state to keep me from walking on so-called "private" property, then absolutely my freedom is impeded. What's "private" space without the violence of the state to back it up? By what right can you exclude me from walking wherever I please, under some guise of "freedom"?

Why do you keep putting "private" in quotes? Do you seriously believe that you should be able to walk into my living room and grab a seat on the couch? Do you seriously believe that you're not "free" if you cannot do so? Should I then be "free" to kick the crap out of you when you take a step into my lawn? Your notion of freedom seems to only work in your favor and completely disregards everyone else.

Walking onto property you claim as your own is not a violent act. Kicking the crap out of me because I've walked onto property you claim as your own is a violent act.

Constraining my movement with respect to your lawn is putting a constraint on my freedom. Beating me up neither constrains my freedom nor encourages it, it's just you being violent.

It's also silly to say the US is founded on "freedom" when that word is uselessly vague.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#135

Post by JoshTriplett »

jff wrote: post #119
varikin wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And motorcycles need constant maintenance.

But the maintenance is really pretty simple, the biggest problem with any gas-burning vehicle would be that all modern gas will be more or less useless after a year or so.

Electrics would have similar problems, though at least they can be charged from either generators or the electrical grid.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#136

Post by 6t6t6 »

PinguTS wrote: post #96
ubernostrum wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was advised, by Germans, to always have my passport on my person when in Germany, as police are empowered to and will randomly stop people and demand identification. One German friend told me that once he was caught out without his ID, and police literally escorted him home to retrieve and show it. Also had to show ID (passport, in my case, as a visitor from the US) to board planes in Europe. While traveling on tra…

Sorry, but that is BS. Traveling on trains does not require an ID. You are not stopped randomly in Germany to show your ID. It never happened to me in the 40 years I am living in Estern Germany and Western Germany. In Germany it is required that you own an ID (or Passport). But you are not required to have it on you. That said, if police has a reason to identify you, because of suspicious behavior, police can have a…

> That said, if police has a reason to identify you, because of suspicious behavior, police can have a hold of you until your identity is proven.

Sometimes, suspicious behavior may be that your skin is not white enough.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#137

Post by 6t6t6 »

shiro wrote: post #108
ubernostrum wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was advised, by Germans, to always have my passport on my person when in Germany, as police are empowered to and will randomly stop people and demand identification. One German friend told me that once he was caught out without his ID, and police literally escorted him home to retrieve and show it. Also had to show ID (passport, in my case, as a visitor from the US) to board planes in Europe. While traveling on tra…

Being non-citizen is a different story. I think both US and Japan require non-citizens to carry their registration document (green card, visa, etc.) all the time, although it is rare that you actually asked to present it. Demanding ID for its own citizens sounds a lot worse.

Can confirm. All foreigners in Japan must carry the "Alien Card" with them, and it's not that rare to be randomly asked for your ID by the police.

That creates a problem because, obviously, the police is performing racial profiling and I met Caucasian or Black Japanese citizens who have been harassed by the police because they were not carrying any ID.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#138

Post by rhino369 »

FireBeyond wrote: post #131
rhino369 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really want to argue in support of the no-fly list because I think it is definitely unconstitutional (in current form), but it is still not a license to travel. It's a black list compared to a white list (travel papers). This makes a huge difference as the default is that you are allowed to travel. Instead of having to convince some bureaucrat that you should be allowed to travel, the government just blocks a…

No. According to the Justice Department itself: "Last fall, there were about 64,000 people on the no-fly list, according to the government. Typically, less than 5 percent of those on the list are Americans. The list fluctuates in size." That's at least 3,000 American -citizens-. Many of those on the list are legal permanent residents, many more than citizens (as immigrants).

I got 500 from a CNN article dated today. Less than 5% can be 1% or 4%.

Either way its still virtually nobody.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#139

Post by EpicEng »

Frondo wrote: post #134
EpicEng wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you keep putting "private" in quotes? Do you seriously believe that you should be able to walk into my living room and grab a seat on the couch? Do you seriously believe that you're not "free" if you cannot do so? Should I then be "free" to kick the crap out of you when you take a step into my lawn? Your notion of freedom seems to only work in your favor and completely disregards everyone else.

Walking onto property you claim as your own is not a violent act. Kicking the crap out of me because I've walked onto property you claim as your own is a violent act. Constraining my movement with respect to your lawn is putting a constraint on my freedom. Beating me up neither constrains my freedom nor encourages it, it's just you being violent. It's also silly to say the US is founded on "freedom" when that word is…

I didn't say that the US was "founded on freedom", but the idea of certain freedoms were very much a part of its inception. Regardless, I don't think you actually defended anything you said. My ability to own private property constrains your freedom in the same way that my mere physical existence constrains your freedom of occupying the same physical space as me. It's all a bunch of psuedo-intellectual, hypothetical nonsense.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#140

Post by chucksmash »

frandroid wrote: post #80
chucksmash wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been eight years, but in 2007 I was able to fly from Columbia, SC to Atlanta, GA without any personally identifying documents whatsoever - I showed up at the airport without a ticket, without a wallet, without anything. I was flying home for a funeral and as such was fairly distraught, so perhaps they cut me some slack on that account. I don't remember any specific hassles though.

You had a ticket but no physical manifestation of it, or had you not bought a ticket by the time you arrived at the airport? Without a wallet, does that mean without cash?

I had already bought a ticket.
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