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Travel in the USA Requires ID

neil.fraser.name

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Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#91

Post by Frondo »

lettergram wrote: post #40
smackfu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the US is actually pretty good about not requiring you to always have Federal ID on you, compared to European countries.

I find it strange compare the laws of a state to others and say things like, "It's pretty good compared to..." They are different government types, founded on different laws, containing different people, and so on. The United States was founded on the idea of "freedom" so, it seems strange to require anything on you, unless it impedes others freedoms.

I can't see how the US was founded on that idea of "freedom unless it impedes others freedoms," since, at its most basic level, the US government has always restricted people's movements.

If you "own" property, I can't freely walk onto that property. Your "ownership" places a severe limitation on my ability to exercise the freedom to move about freely.

It seems specious to claim retroactively that the US somehow cares about freedom at all, when some of the most basic were stripped from us at its founding.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#92

Post by mikeash »

toddmatthews wrote: post #57
MBCook wrote: post #12

> We used to make fun of the Soviet Union for its lack of freedom of travel ("papers please"). You only need ID not pre-authorization. You don't have to get Idaho to authorize your vacation and Nebraska to allow you transit.

also, "papers please" was a German thing AFAIK

Russia has a long history of requiring internal passports to travel, including the USSR but existing both before and after.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#93

Post by CWuestefeld »

eli wrote: post #54
jasonpeacock wrote: post #35

There's a lot of FUD in the article. Most (all?) states have no requirement to carry or present ID to officers - you only have to give your name, and sometimes your address depending on the state. There's no Federal requirement to carry ID. To operate a motor vehicle you need a driver's licence...but your passengers don't. What about riding the bus? You can get on the local Metro, Bolt bus, or Greyhound w/o an ID. Hi…

As the blog states, you actually don't need an ID to fly, you just need to prove your identity (and be ready for a huge hassle).

Is "proving your identity" different in any meaningful way from "having an ID"?

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#94

Post by noedig »

I wonder if we will need to have a license to operate a self-driving car. Certainly we will need a driver's license in the short-term, but after some time when people trust that self-driving cars work, will we decide that it is no longer necessary for the person using the car to know how to drive? If so, then that seems like it would open up a pretty anonymous way to travel. Of course, the vehicle will probably be licensed, but if you rent it from a company, then they company will know who is using the car, but the government will not. Will the government require rental companies to check ID's and provide them with the information? Maybe, but they already do that, and the government would need a warrant to get the information.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#95

Post by CWuestefeld »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #86
derekp7 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny you mention that, because he doesn't bring up bicycles in several of his post-apocalypse books (I'm thinking of The Stand as one specific example -- the characters all walk from one end of the country to the other).

I'm fairly sure The Stand uses bicycles as the primary mode of transportation? Unless I'm mixing that up with Under the Dome, but I don't think so?

It's been many years since I read it, but I seem to recall that in the full director's cut version (or whatever they call the not-well-edited version that came out second), the conclusion of the book involved a package in a basket on the handlebars of a bike?

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#96

Post by PinguTS »

ubernostrum wrote: post #76
thecopy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot remember the last time i showed my ID to anyone when traveling/flying in Europe.

I was advised, by Germans, to always have my passport on my person when in Germany, as police are empowered to and will randomly stop people and demand identification. One German friend told me that once he was caught out without his ID, and police literally escorted him home to retrieve and show it. Also had to show ID (passport, in my case, as a visitor from the US) to board planes in Europe. While traveling on tra…

Sorry, but that is BS.

Traveling on trains does not require an ID. You are not stopped randomly in Germany to show your ID. It never happened to me in the 40 years I am living in Estern Germany and Western Germany.

In Germany it is required that you own an ID (or Passport). But you are not required to have it on you.

That said, if police has a reason to identify you, because of suspicious behavior, police can have a hold of you until your identity is proven. That will happen when you are speeding for example.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#97

Post by hsod »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #86
derekp7 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny you mention that, because he doesn't bring up bicycles in several of his post-apocalypse books (I'm thinking of The Stand as one specific example -- the characters all walk from one end of the country to the other).

I'm fairly sure The Stand uses bicycles as the primary mode of transportation? Unless I'm mixing that up with Under the Dome, but I don't think so?

It's not Under the Dome-- there are some kids that bike around but all the adults drive

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#98

Post by saint_fiasco »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #51
saint_fiasco wrote: post #46

The author of the article implies that he used to be proud of not having to do so because it differentiates his country from the Soviet Union. How will having to carry ID turn a country into an authoritarian dystopia? Is it just an American thing? I ask because I live in a country with an authoritarian past and we still have to carry ID everywhere and people just don't see anything wrong with that. Should I try to pe…

Requiring papers to travel means convincing your government. Not requiring papers/ID means the government can't withold them. Personal freedom, which is paramount in American public discourse.

In my country everyone has a right to an ID card and not even the police can confiscate them.

I agree that withholding an essential ID document is evil.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#99

Post by darklajid »

ubernostrum wrote: post #76
thecopy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot remember the last time i showed my ID to anyone when traveling/flying in Europe.

I was advised, by Germans, to always have my passport on my person when in Germany, as police are empowered to and will randomly stop people and demand identification. One German friend told me that once he was caught out without his ID, and police literally escorted him home to retrieve and show it. Also had to show ID (passport, in my case, as a visitor from the US) to board planes in Europe. While traveling on tra…

Different things.

1) "Have your passport on your person": Yes, unfortunately this country requires you to be able to provide some ID. No, you don't need to carry it with you. If you DON'T have one though, it might cause issues/trouble/cost money. [1] I assume the Germans were misinformed and scared, the anecdote was probably not true.

2) You have to show your ID or passport at the border (aka. the airport in this case). You don't need to do that if you move in the Schengen area: Travelling from Germany to the Netherlands won't require an ID. That said, maybe you talk about braindead boarding procedures only. Those exist. People like to make sure that you're the one that checked in and all and .. yeah.. Please provide your boarding pass and ID. Useless. Enforced randomly. Utterly insane. Consider it a nuisance if it happens, but .. it doesn't, most of the time.

3) You never need to show an ID in a train. Except: a) you cross a border and leave the Schengen area. Normal procedures, people will check your passport/ID b) you bought a ticket that says 'can be used in a train (as paper or digital), but requires an ID'. That's the DB (German Railway company) being insane, stupid, annoying, crap, (insert-more-expletives-here). You can buy a ticket at a counter and no one is ever going to ask you for your ID. And I guess no one knows why they consider it a reasonable thing to do for most online tickets/digital tickets.

So:

1) Wrong 2) Maybe 3) DB is run by idiots, is crap, sucks - and there is a workaround

1: Seems to be German only, Google translate? http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personalausweisgesetz

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#100

Post by JoeAltmaier »

saint_fiasco wrote: post #98
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring papers to travel means convincing your government. Not requiring papers/ID means the government can't withold them. Personal freedom, which is paramount in American public discourse.

In my country everyone has a right to an ID card and not even the police can confiscate them. I agree that withholding an essential ID document is evil.

But, do you see that checking even your ID means the police can deny travel based on who you are? The 'travel papers' are then in the government computer.

No, its essential you do not even present ID to travel, for personal freedom to be ensured.

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