Travel in the USA Requires ID • Hacker News Board

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#51

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 8:21 PM UTC

saint_fiasco wrote: post #46

The author of the article implies that he used to be proud of not having to do so because it differentiates his country from the Soviet Union. How will having to carry ID turn a country into an authoritarian dystopia? Is it just an American thing? I ask because I live in a country with an authoritarian past and we still have to carry ID everywhere and people just don't see anything wrong with that. Should I try to pe…

Requiring papers to travel means convincing your government. Not requiring papers/ID means the government can't withold them. Personal freedom, which is paramount in American public discourse.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#52

Post by rhino369 » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 8:21 PM UTC

rmxt wrote: post #31

rhino369 wrote: post #17

Comparing an ID with "travel papers" is silly. An ID is an identification device given to everyone who wants one. "Travel papers" are licenses to travel. IDs are a tiny restriction on your freedom. Travel papers are a major restriction on your freedom. The stupid airfare taxes are a much bigger restriction on our freedom, IMO.

The post's entire point is that IDs are de facto travel papers. The reasons why we object to photo ID at vote time should also apply to general intra-US travel (or at least intrastate travel).

And my point is that travel papers aren't just something you need to travel with. It's a permission for specific travel.

You can argue that requiring an ID for traveling on a plane is too restrictive, but it's not travel papers.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#53

Post by pmontra » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 8:22 PM UTC

hbbio wrote: post #18

Reading this should particularly echo to the French-crowd here, as our government is about to pass one of worst anti-privacy law in history, all in the sake of fighting "terrorism" of course. Side note: The author is also the author of Differential Synchronization, a key alternative to Operational Transform. If you happen to read this, congratulations for your work!

Thanks for the reference to Differential Synchronization, very interesting! https://neil.fraser.name/writing/sync/

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#54

Post by eli » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 8:22 PM UTC

jasonpeacock wrote: post #35

There's a lot of FUD in the article. Most (all?) states have no requirement to carry or present ID to officers - you only have to give your name, and sometimes your address depending on the state. There's no Federal requirement to carry ID. To operate a motor vehicle you need a driver's licence...but your passengers don't. What about riding the bus? You can get on the local Metro, Bolt bus, or Greyhound w/o an ID. Hi…

As the blog states, you actually don't need an ID to fly, you just need to prove your identity (and be ready for a huge hassle).

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#55

Post by JoshTriplett » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 8:23 PM UTC

mherdeg wrote: post #34

I think you can still travel long distances anonymously using a bicycle. Stephen King treats bikes as the canonical post-apocalyptic transit method — roads are too crowded with abandoned cars for automobile travel to be effective, and motorcycle travel is very dangerous (there is no ambulance if you have a high-speed accident). But you can do a hundred miles in a day on a bike. That's not bad. I've also never been as…

Motorcycles also need gas.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#56

Post by MichaelGG » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 8:24 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #13

Other ways to travel without ID: by taxi paid for with cash also greyhound buses (paid for with cash). It seems cash is the only means of travelling without IDing yourself. The destruction of privacy via credit cards/debit cards hasn't been given enough credit.

The article points out long-haul buses and links to this article: http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/tsa-swarms-8000-bus-...

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#57

Post by toddmatthews » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 8:24 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #12

> We used to make fun of the Soviet Union for its lack of freedom of travel ("papers please"). You only need ID not pre-authorization. You don't have to get Idaho to authorize your vacation and Nebraska to allow you transit.

also, "papers please" was a German thing AFAIK

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#58

Post by kirsebaer » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 8:27 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #13

Other ways to travel without ID: by taxi paid for with cash also greyhound buses (paid for with cash). It seems cash is the only means of travelling without IDing yourself. The destruction of privacy via credit cards/debit cards hasn't been given enough credit.

Greyhound and other inter-state buses require ID.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#59

Post by rhino369 » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 8:28 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #33

rhino369 wrote: post #17

Comparing an ID with "travel papers" is silly. An ID is an identification device given to everyone who wants one. "Travel papers" are licenses to travel. IDs are a tiny restriction on your freedom. Travel papers are a major restriction on your freedom. The stupid airfare taxes are a much bigger restriction on our freedom, IMO.

What's the difference, exactly? "Travel papers" are used to control whether or not you're allowed to travel. ID checks are also used to control whether or not you're allowed to travel. (For example, one use of ID checks for air travel is to check the traveler against the government's no-fly list.) Are you just saying that the requirements aren't currently restrictive enough to be worth complaining about? Because I on…

Permission vs. just to identify who I am.

I can drive to the airport right now and fly wherever I want. I don't need it approved by government.

Re: Travel in the USA Requires ID

#60

Post by bgilroy26 » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 8:29 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #40

smackfu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the US is actually pretty good about not requiring you to always have Federal ID on you, compared to European countries.

I find it strange compare the laws of a state to others and say things like, "It's pretty good compared to..." They are different government types, founded on different laws, containing different people, and so on. The United States was founded on the idea of "freedom" so, it seems strange to require anything on you, unless it impedes others freedoms.

If you found a nation on an idea, the specifics of the idea are going to be hammered out.

Both the idea of "freedom" and the idea of impeding others' freedoms have been specified in US legislation and in the case history of the US court system. Without going through and clarifying what freedom and impeding freedom mean in different situations, the US economy could not exist at its present size.

Investors can be confident that life will go smoothly based on the US Government. That's what powers the US Treasury, which powers low interest rates, which powers our economy.